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Philosophy/religion

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Can you be a 'Christian' and not believe in God? (sorry - long)

112 replies

Moomin · 10/04/2005 09:38

I'm been having lots of thoughts recently about God/religion/life and would appreciate some thoughts. I was christened and went to Sunday school as a child but never really enjoyed it so my parents didn't force me to go. We were never a church-going family but most family wedding/christenings/funerals were CofE, like a lot of people I spose.

I went off orthodox religion in my teens and became very anti-God as I objected to the way that the bible and Christianity seemed to be interpreted by many church-goers that I came across. I also became very anti-Catholic because of the negative experiences many of my friends had and the press about Catholic paedophile priests.

Ive been married twice and both times had civil ceremonies as I felt it was very hypocritical to marry in church that meant little to me. Dd had a very informal naming ceremony with no-one officiating, more like a family/friends celebration really.

However, I've been revising my thoughts since dd got a bit older. I think that, as a whole, the basic Christian ethos of 'do unto others' is a very sensible way to live your life, and I'm very keen on the teaching of tolerance of other religions. I feel that it's hypocritical to celebrate Christmas and Easter without telling dd of their origins and in some way I've been treating them as 'true'. In fact, I do believe that Jesus was a real person, a prophet, I believe in the basics of his teachings and I also believe in the existence of 'God', although I don't necessarily believe in the way it's been translated or interpreted by the people (men) who wrote the Bible (which I think has been the tool of much manipulation in the past). I believe that humans need something to believe in and that their soul (for want of a better word) makes them different to animals in having this need.

I am seriously thinking about getting dd christened next year, when I will have no.2 as well. But is it wrong to have dd christened in a church so that she is given a 'base' for her life, even though I am picking and choosing the aspects of this religion that I feel apply to me/us? I won't want to attend church regularly, although I do visit churches and cathedrals for thinking time and also to admire the feat of the architecture!

Views and thoughts greatly appreciated.

OP posts:
bloss · 20/04/2005 14:03

Message withdrawn

ionesmum · 20/04/2005 14:08

I'v e argued myself about the gay issue on here, but in relation to what Jesus has to say on so much it's such a trivial one. Why can't we just get on and love one another and leave the judging to God? No wonder Moomin and others struggle with Christianity. Our priorities appear very skewed.

bloss · 20/04/2005 14:11

Message withdrawn

ruty · 20/04/2005 14:20

oh dear. i don't want to get into an argument. But i do think we can prioritise with sin. For me, killing thousands of children in the name of a 'just' war is a far greater evil than [even if it was a sin] homosexuality, and i believe this is to be in Christ's teachings. Capital punishment is legalized sin. So much that governments do is legalized sin. An individual's efforts to love and be loved by another consenting adult is not. But this could go on forever. I keep saying i'll shut up but its so tempting!

bloss · 20/04/2005 22:55

Message withdrawn

ruty · 21/04/2005 10:13

ok. we are never going to see eye to eye.

ruty · 21/04/2005 10:22

anyway moomin, if you are still reading this as you can see there is a huge spectrum of opinions within the community of people who want to follow Christ. i would say go and see this vicar, see what he has to say. Now i'm going. Promise!

majorstress · 28/04/2005 16:55

I doubt anyone is still interested but I am coming out as a Unitarian, since someone asked last month on this thread (I did a search out of curiosity). It's good for people with lots of questions who don't already know the answers.

megandsoph · 29/04/2005 10:52

www.beliefnet.com/index.html?rnd=085 this site is quite good if u go to the belief o matic part u fill in a questionaire which covers a range of questions and at the end gives u a list on percentages on the most likely religan that u are just done it and happily I have come out 100% neo pagan which is the path I'm on but it lists all religans and faiths

periwinklefish · 05/03/2012 02:27

No, I'm sorry, the truthful and straightforward answer is..... you cannot be a christian and not believe in god. It is hard when you come to these realizations because they shake your childhood beliefs and threaten your existing social situation, but believe it or not, there are so many people in the world who feel the way you do. You will find them in the more affluent, intelligent populations (which also tend to have more liberal ideas...). It's a big, free, happy, empowered world out there without religion!

periwinklefish · 05/03/2012 04:32

First, to answer your initial question, No, you cannot be a christian and not believe in god, but you can be spiritual and not believe in god.

The Christian ethos "do unto others..."... you should know, it is not actually IN the bible. It is a saying that a lot of Christians have adopted, but is not actually not found in the bible anywhere. However, you do not need to be a christian or to read the bible for that matter in order to decide to live by that ethos. YOU can decide to live by it... all by yourself!

I feel your vision of teaching your children to be tolerant of other religions is a wonderful, open and loving way to go, and I commend you on that.

Before feeling bad about teaching the origins of Christmas and Easter, you should learn them. They date back farther than christianity as the christians actually adopted these dates and many of the traditions from the pagans in order to convert the pagans more easily to Christianity (an easier transition) at the time. If you study history you will find that religion, the use of it by powerful leaders, has been a major tool used to control the masses. This went on before christianity entered into the picture, and still happens rampantly today in every country, every religion.

You can believe in the teachings of Jesus, as these ideals existed before Jesus... he just assimilated them, and sold the package very well to the masses. At the time of Jesus, there were hundreds to thousands of others also professing to be prophets and trying to gain a following. It was kind of a fad at a time when people were politically torn and many were looking for direction and answers.... Answers that mankind has been searching for for ten of thousands of years, and each year, science answers more and more of those questions making religion more and more obsolete....hence the constant changing and reinterpretation of doctrines of religions worldwide.

I think you already have a lot of insight into this, and if you keep learning and asking questions, you will find that knowledge, science, and history are actually amazing, beautiful and complicated and can fill a thirst for knowledge that I believe you already have.

The reason man seems so much more special than other organisms is because we are simply more evolved. On a cellular level, our neurons are more advanced, and so we have more developed more mental capability and a higher conscience. How this evolved is a complicated, long term process involving natural selection, gene mutation, neuroscience, psychology, and others facets. But, the fascinating thing, is that this development can be broken down to a cellular level which evolve VERY slowly over time. Many types of humanoid species were fighting for existence in the past few million years. In the last 10,000 we won out over the last remaining competitor species...neanderthal. Evolution is an intricate, beautiful web of traits and genetics and is fascinating. You do not need to have a science degree to research these things and learn fascinating things that will keep you asking more and more questions.

That is the difference you will find between science and religion. Science encourages constant questioning and rethinking in order to come to the most reliable conclusions. Religion is the opposite.... it comes up with answers first, and then refuses to ask too many questions. People have a psychological defense mechanism to need these answers to explain unexplainable phenomena. Religions have explained these things to calm peoples' minds, but more and more it becomes obsolete as the answers are being discovered through furthered science.

If I were you, and what I have done, is to raise your children to be open, questioning beings. Research science and history for yourself and decide what is better.... for your children to live authentically and in reality, or to tell them a story that you, yourself doubt to be true. I encourage you to be brave and the more knowledge you obtain the more confident you will be.

As far as spiritual growth, there are many many ways to achieve this, and this can be researched, too. As far as christening your children.... I feel it is a personal decision and I have left it up to my children to decide for themselves about god, religion, and subsequently, baptism.

Baptism is one of many traditions used in many religions. Many of theses tradition are rooted in human psychology. Rituals help people solidify their beliefs and they incorporate their EMOTIONS, which is a huge huge factor in religion. Basically, appealing to your emotions is how they hook you.

Belief and faith are the opposite of reason, logic and science.

....and BTW, I greatly admire churches for their architecture, as well! I am an atheist, but this has come over a lifetime of contemplation and ultimately, an anthropology class made it undeniable for me. You CAN have morals and great values without religion. The myth that you cannot is something the religious will tell you to thwart you from thinking outside their box....

madhairday · 05/03/2012 12:08

Why are we on a seven year old thread? Confused

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