Can you be a 'Christian' and not believe in God? (sorry - long)

[Moomin]

I'm been having lots of thoughts recently about God/religion/life and would appreciate some thoughts. I was christened and went to Sunday school as a child but never really enjoyed it so my parents didn't force me to go. We were never a church-going family but most family wedding/christenings/funerals were CofE, like a lot of people I spose.

I went off orthodox religion in my teens and became very anti-God as I objected to the way that the bible and Christianity seemed to be interpreted by many church-goers that I came across. I also became very anti-Catholic because of the negative experiences many of my friends had and the press about Catholic paedophile priests.

Ive been married twice and both times had civil ceremonies as I felt it was very hypocritical to marry in church that meant little to me. Dd had a very informal naming ceremony with no-one officiating, more like a family/friends celebration really.

However, I've been revising my thoughts since dd got a bit older. I think that, as a whole, the basic Christian ethos of 'do unto others' is a very sensible way to live your life, and I'm very keen on the teaching of tolerance of other religions. I feel that it's hypocritical to celebrate Christmas and Easter without telling dd of their origins and in some way I've been treating them as 'true'. In fact, I do believe that Jesus was a real person, a prophet, I believe in the basics of his teachings and I also believe in the existence of 'God', although I don't necessarily believe in the way it's been translated or interpreted by the people (men) who wrote the Bible (which I think has been the tool of much manipulation in the past). I believe that humans need something to believe in and that their soul (for want of a better word) makes them different to animals in having this need.

I am seriously thinking about getting dd christened next year, when I will have no.2 as well. But is it wrong to have dd christened in a church so that she is given a 'base' for her life, even though I am picking and choosing the aspects of this religion that I feel apply to me/us? I won't want to attend church regularly, although I do visit churches and cathedrals for thinking time and also to admire the feat of the architecture!

Views and thoughts greatly appreciated.

Moomin I haven't read the other posts (no time, too tired and it's too late) but I think you're as entitled to be as selective in having the bits of Christianity you want as the Archbishop of Canterbury/ George Bush/ Desmond Tutu/ The Pope/ Tony Blair/ The Queen/ Alf Garnett/ Torquemada/ Henry VIII/ Ivan the Terrible/ Machiavelli/ Mother Teresa/ Samantha Fox/ John Travolta etc etc etc etc are/ were.

In other words, they chose the bits they like(d) and they construct(ed) a philosophy / ideology from it. You're absolutely at liberty to do exactly the same. That's why religion is so successful - it's all things to all men (and women) and we're all entitled to drop in and out of it as will (now that the Inquisition has gone out of fashion).

Jools, can we add circumcision to that list ?

Oooer - forgot that one expat!

being a Christian does mean believing in God, so I do believe that if you are a Christian it does mean believing in God etc, however that does not mean that you have to go to church at all, being a Christian is more heartfelt than how much you think you have to go to church because you feel you ought to, it's a complete approach to life and dedication to putting things before yourself, chruch no but if you are a Christian then part of that is believing in God.

You may find some help in books reviewing the Gnostic approach to Christianity. It is, IMO, a lot like Buddhism in that you are finding the God within rather than worshipping an external God. Good books are: A rebirth for Christianity and The Gospel of Mary Magdalene translated by Jean Yves Leloup.

Just had time to skim some of the posts and wanted to add that I do think you can raise a spiritual child outside of organized religion. I am Pagan and ds is being raised to respect the religious beliefs of others. He will be taught different philosophies to find a path that suits him while providing the knowledge to resist blindly following any particular sect.

There is a really brilliant site and UNBIASED as well that covers most religions and their basics,if you are searching for something or even just further information about the various philosphies, the format is a convenient one.You or someone else my find it interesting or educational it covers everything from Sikhs-Satanism.

www.religioustolerance.org/index.htm#new

Sorry Moomin, only read your post and haven't got time to read whole thread.

I totally know where you're coming from. I'm a Christian and go to Church every Sunday, home group once a fortnight and also do a Christian course once a week. I'm also involved in other things to do with our Church. That said I don't believe everything in the bible but do believe wholeheartedly in Jesus and the account of his life. I don't go with everything in the NT though. I've prayed about this and also use my instinct and feel I'm in a good place regarding my faith. That said I still wrestle with myself over lots of faith issues but don't lose sleep over it.

Oh and btw I was brought up with an aethiest dad and agnostic mum so no religious upbringing. The nearest I got was my friend's family who are Mormons.

lol I read your post really quickly and thought you said your friend's family were MOOMINS! hey maybe I should start my own alternative religion.

Lol Moomin that's exactly what I thought it said when I read it!

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Moomin - could humanism be what you're looking for?

I like the idea of being a practising moomin

very interesting thread - i have trouble calling myself a christian because of the connotations that involves, although i want to follow Christ's teachings. The evangelical church is not for me, and i am quite alarmed about the rising evangelical movement in USA which seems very self righteous and right wing. [i don't mean everybody!] I believe Christ would be very sad to see gay people condemned, and stem cell research which could cure so many people stopped. He believed in love and tolerance and heaven on earth, equality in society.

the real evils in this world are the abuse of power and money, not homosexuality or contraception, and i think so many christians seem to be distracted by the latter. Would love to to find a church where this planet that God made was celebrated and the 'real' Christ was worshipped.

Ruty - you are so right. I am Christian but struggle with certian aspects of Christianity, such as intolerance of those who do not fit the conventional mould (eg homosexuals, many of whom have battled for years against their sexuality). I thought one of the key foundations of Christianity was tolerance and forgiveness of all others?

I struggle in particular with the belief that God does not allow anyone into Heaven that is not a practising Christian on Earth. It's very easy for certain Christians to preach this when they are comfortably ensconced in a Christian family with mainly Christian friends etc. I am from a Christian family but neither my husband nor the majority of my friends are practising Christians and i do not believe ANY of them to be so evil that they should be sent to eternal damnation!!

I was brought up a Catholic however found Catholicism too overwhelmingly heavy for me and perhaps as a consequence became atheist for many many years. It has only been recently that I have turned to God again and am a member of a CofE church. I still struggle with certain parts of the Bible and even find it hard sometimes to embrace wholeheartedly my faith however I am trying.

As you say Ruty, it is hard to accept that all is black and white i strongly believe there must be shades of grey as I think over the years Man has twisted much of Jesus' teachings to fit in to a strict order of rules.... many of which are quite possibly manifested in the Bible. I often wonder how far we have drifted from Jesus' original intentions?

It is a great pity as there are clearly people out there (like Moomin perhaps?) who wish to explore their spirituality but are put off by certain rigid and intolerant rules. As someone else said earlier, is this what Jesus wanted (and indeed preached?).

Must sound slightly blasphemous to the likes of Dixie but I do respect what you've been arguing hon, I promise!

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When did God say he only allowed 'practising Christians' into heaven? The only way to heaven is to believe in the life, death and resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of our sins, and not a set of rules and ways to behave!

I am a practising Christian and I believe that everyone will be saved. Not all Christians think you have to be part of some exclusive club to get in!

Ruty, check out Celtic Christianity for an apprectition of nature and Jesus Christ. Try looking at the websites for the Northumbria Community, the Iona Community and the Community of Aidan and Hilda, and books by David Adam and Ray Simpson, not to mention the classic Carmina Gadelica.

ionesmum, what makes you believe that? Not being antagonising, just wondered what that was based on.

Don't worry evansmummy, I've had many discussions about this on here! It's because I believe that God is so wonderful that no-one can refuse his love when they come face-to-face with him - not even Satan. It's a belief called universailm and a few centuries ago would have got me burned at the stake

I totally agree with you of course! But the whole point of Jesus' sacrifice was so that through him, people could come into God's presence. Without it, each of us is spiritually impure and so unable to be in union with God; The only way, is to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus which cleanses us of this impurity, thus enabling us into his kingdom. Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't claim to be an authority on the subject, as you know!!

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