What exactly does the Bible say about homosexuality?

[beansmum]

And why do some Christians make such a big deal out of it when Jesus didn't mention it at all?

It is kind of on my mind at the moment because of a comment the woman preaching on Sunday made about 'truth not tolerance', standing up for the 'truth' and not just trying to 'hug everyone and tell them they are ok'.

my spelling has gone a bit wonky, sorry!

the bible does not teach that sex is only for procreation. Have you read song of solomon? It is for our enjoyment and presumably to help keep marriages together, sex is a hugely important part of marriage - god designed it that way.

I really wish the bible said that "gay marriage" was okay/part of His plan but I'd be very surprised to find evidence to support that point of view.

Does God say abortion is wrong or just do not kill?

Onan's sin was just the wanking though, it was because he wouldn't marry his brother's widow IIRC.

Why did God 'give them over' to homosexuality?
Was it a punishhment?

beansmum - when I was first a christian, your interpretation of romans 1 was pretty much the view I held too - that the straightforward reading was clearly nonsense, so either Paul just didn't know what he was talking about, or there must be another way to interpret it that fitted with the world that I could see around me.

After a few years, I became convinced that the bible was more than just a collection of writing made by fallible men hundreds or thousands of years ago. I came to believe that it is God speaking to us in a way that is true and relevant for every generation.

So I don't think we're ever going to agree - and I'm not looking to get into an argument. Because it took a paradigm shift to get me here.

The thing with Onan wasn't that he was masturbating or having sex without the intention to have children. His brother had died, so he was supposed to have a child with his brother's widow, so that his brother's family line and land inheritance could continue. His sin was his refusal to do that.

(Not that I entirely get what the whole family line thing is about! Just that it's not really to do with the sex.)

I think it's fairly clear that the collected biblical teaching (OT and NT) is that homosexuality is wrong, if you're working from the simplest way of reading it. It doesn't explain why, but it makes no bones about it being unacceptable to God.

I've tried to work with revisionist interpretations for a number of years now, to try and reconcile lots of things, but they just don't convince me at all. The way I'm dealing with it now is having a simple choice between a straight-forward, literalist reading which would mean that, according to Romans, who I am instinctively sexually attracted to means that I am part of what God has punished the culture with or a completely different approach to scripture which would be more in line with it containing God's word, than being God's word in its entirety.

This is an enormous deal to me, and I'm finding it very difficult, if truth be told. Because before, I've always been quite happy to accept that if I don't get something in scripture, I keep looking until I do. But the scriptural teaching about homosexuality boggles me, because I honestly can't see anything wrong with falling in love with someone who has the same bits as you.

The 'natural' thing is a complete crock of bananas - I've been 'naturally' attracted to girls as well as boys for as long as I can remember, I didn't train for it, it just always was.

The 'not able to procreate' thing is also gubbins - I have heterosexual married friends who have been unable to conceive because the wife was born without a womb, should she never have got married because of that?

The main instance of homosexual behaviour in scripture that is used to underline the sinfulness of it (Sodom) is an attempted gang-rape, which, quite frankly, is a deeply offensive comparison to make when we're talking about the loving committed relationships that many in the gay community are privelieged to enjoy freely in our culture.

So, I'm looking at how homosexuality would break the golden rule, and the only reason I can see in the scripture is that God doesn't like it.

Which used to be enough for me, but elsewhere God is presented as a God who is rational and completely good, not a capricious God who vindictively outlaws things 'just because'.

I'm still working it through, but I think it's a straight choice for me now, between the fundamentalism I have clung to like a life-raft before now, and actual theological liberalism.

@ Car Girl's post of 11:50:26 - I would agree that the bible teaches that any sex - gay or straight - outside of marriage (defined as one man and one woman) - is wrong.

All sin has spiritual consequences (not just sexual sin) - Paul says "the wages of sin is death", and as other people have said, most of Jesus' time was not spent focussing on sexual sin.

I'm not saying that gay people can't be christians - even actively gay people. That's not my judgment to make - only God knows the state of our heart, and of our relationship with him. I have sin in my life, and some of it is habitual, and some of it is probably as deeply entrenched in my personality as my sexuality. Jesus accepts me as I am, and he's working to change me by his Holy Spirit.

I do think that's a different issue from me saying "This area of my life is not sinful. I embrace it as the way that God made me."

KayHarker - I agree with almost every word you've written. It makes me sad and angry that there seems to be no reason given in scripture for homosexuality being wrong. I feel the same way about the headship of the husband. When I got married, I promised to submit, because I believe that's what the bible teaches. I don't really understand what it means, and I certainly don't keep my promise very well. I believe it's where I need to be aiming. But I still want to know why.

cornflakegirl - are you saying that you promised to be submissive to your husband and strive to be, simply because the Bible says you should? Or am I misunderstanding?

cornflakegirl, it's a right pain, isn't it? The headship thing is one of the things that has taken a great big thumping knock in recent times for me, too. I blogged about it a lot although I've trailed off recently.

In fact, the role of women and homosexuality are the two issues that have really sent me reeling recently.

AMiS, it's enormous, and it makes me feel much better that you would be able to see how enormous and frankly terrifying it is for me.

seeker - essentially yes. Although I'm rather less striving than I should be.

See, that's the bit that concerns me slightly. Being submissive to your husband because a book (written by men) tells you that you should be

Well, picking up your entire view of the universe and shaking it all over the place is always going to be painful. I'm just sorry that you're in a position where things that have given you strength and purpose have taken such a knock.

DH and I discussed whether I was going to say "Obey" in the ceremony, and what we both meant by it. In the end I did say it on the basis that, although we almost always reach a joint decision, if it really boiled down to it I probably would be the one to compromise.

But, 17 years later, I've still never had to actually "obey" him about anything.

I do find this SOOO hard. I'm not a Christian, so I suppose I have no right to comment - but why on earth would God want you to subservient to your husband? Wasn't Eve created from Adam's side to be equal with him?

Iklboo - but I don't see it as a book written by men. I see it as a book written by an all-knowing, loving God. So I can safely take things on trust. And because I'm human, and intelligent, and trained in critical thinking, I can try to understand, and I can rail against it, and I can effectively live as though I don't believe it. (Although I don't recommend the last part as a path to spiritual wholeness.)

I really couldn't say much as I don't believe in a supreme God and seriously do not want to offend or question those that do.
If you are happy in your belief then I'm sure you will do what you need (and want) to do to be true to your faith

Once again I am sooooo confused by this whole thing. I know homosexual relationships aren't wrong. Just as I know I will never 'submit' to my husband (if I ever find one!). But if the bible says these things then where does that leave my faith? So far I haven't read anything which convinces me that God thinks homosexual relationships are sinful, but so many people who know so much more about the subject than I do think He does say that. Why would He? (yes I know, we don't need to know why, if God says so He must have a reason).

I believe in God, but the more I think about it and read about it and talk about it the more I think religion is a load of nonsense. But I believe Jesus was real, and God, so I can't just dismiss the whole thing and I end up going round in circles arguing with myself.

It's one of the tricky ones seeker, because she was also created after Adam, and created out of him rather than directly by God from the dirt. And some people use that to justify women being fundamentally subservient to men, or else "equal but different".

Personally, I believe that everyone is equal and should have the same opportunities regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, or anything else. It's even got a name - Christian Egalitarianism

Once again I am sooooo confused by this whole thing. I know homosexual relationships aren't wrong. Just as I know I will never 'submit' to my husband (if I ever find one!). But if the bible says these things then where does that leave my faith? So far I haven't read anything which convinces me that God thinks homosexual relationships are sinful, but so many people who know so much more about the subject than I do think He does say that. Why would He? (yes I know, we don't need to know why, if God says so He must have a reason).

I believe in God, but the more I think about it and read about it and talk about it the more I think religion is a load of nonsense. But I believe Jesus was real, and God, so I can't just dismiss the whole thing and I end up going round in circles arguing with myself.

What about the issue of translation? Or do you believe that the translators were divinely inspired too?