Lily Philips - can she be a 'true' Christian?

[mids2019]

https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/lily-phillips-has-been-baptised-i-pray-its-accompanied-by-change/20772.article

This article made me think about what it means to be Christian especially about the concepts of sin, judgment and redemption.

In my view Lily of course is a Christian being baptised but to not give up a lucrative adult film career possibly does cause angst amongst more traditional Christians.

We are taught not to judge 'Let those without sin cast the first stone' and to accept the universal unconditionally of forgiveness. (We pray every day about the forgiveness of sin) so it is difficult thologically to condemn others.

However does any fellow Christian need to remind Lily she makes money from a profession where many women with less choice are coerced and manipulated for thr gratification of men? Wr have moved away from a less judgmental Christianity but how do you view participation in Christian life with such a job?

@Terrribletwos God works in different ways throughout human history. He is always working out His plan for His creation, and to redeem us from the fall in the Garden of Eden. He is very much hands-on, but during this Church age He is now waiting for all those who will come to belief in Christ to come, after which the 7 year Tribulation will begin. None of us know when that number is complete, and none of us fully grasp why this or that happens. There's a point where we must trust God does things for His divine purpose. Ultimately those who are saved will enjoy eternal life, as humanity was always meant to do. This is why Christians spread the gospel, we are working in partnership with God, it's His plan we spread the word this way, and our aim is that all will come and none will be lost. You are all precious to God!

God meets us where we are. In the early days of humanity this was different to how we are now. He worked with humanity in the Old Testament by making covenants and giving strict rules to His chosen nation, the Israelites. They had an animal sacrificial system to cover the sins that they committed, but this had to be repeated on a daily, weekly, yearly basis as these sacrifices could not cover sin for all time. Once Jesus came, God now works through the New Covenant. His sacrifice covers all sin for all time. All that is needed is to recognise your own shortcomings and wrongdoing and to repent, and to believe in Jesus, that He died for your sins. That is literally all you need. It's the starting point for your walk with Christ. You don't need a degree in theology or to understand the entirety of the Bible and all the doctrines. At the end of the day, faith saves.

Ah, thanks justremach, it's been nice engaging with you, you sound like a decent person.

I still don't quite understand the shift between the old and the new testament.

If God is so all knowing, did he not know what he was writing/talking about in all those books?

All that is needed is to recognise your own shortcomings and wrongdoing and to repent, and to believe in Jesus, that He died for your sins.

@Terrribletwos - the above comment gets rolled out regularly - it’s a control mechanism. Nothing negative happens as an atheist - life continues on perfectly.

It's not a 'control mechanism'. You're perfectly entitled to choose to go your own way. Likewise I am free to choose what I believe. I did not choose it out of fear or because someone tried to 'control' me.

who says you need to recognise your wrongdoing and shortcomings and repent - who is telling you to behave this way and why would anyone need to repent?

Yea, absolutely. I do not agree or disagree with any or either of you.

I just asked some questions and I am yet to hear the answers.

Again,. Why does the ot differ from the nt if God is all knowing, all powerful etc
?
Why does god make it his word all so confusing , whereby to this day people are still arguing the facts of the Bible?

Why didn't he just spread his word worldwide? Why did it take missionaries to spread his word when he could have done it?

This is a fairly short article I found helpful in the past on getting a sense of how Temple life was. There was lots of problem with it and Jesus became the new high priest . God used to come down at Yom Kippur and it seems may be he didn't want to do this any more . The people believing in him would grow to.

https://stanthonyshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/From-Tent-to-Temple.pdf

This may also give some insight how Temple life was.
https://stanthonyshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Temple-Ministry.pdf

https://stanthonyshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Temple-and-New-Testament.pdf

Sorry, but I have read it and not of it makes sense to me,it's all goobledekook?

Can you explain in a clear way?

And if it's written like the above how is anybody supposed to understand?

Why didn't he just spread his word worldwide? Why did it take missionaries to spread his word when he could have done it?

Because as I said, God wants to partner with humanity. Jesus told his disciples to go and spread the word to all nations. So that's what we do. That way we form connections, have fellowship, can minister to those who need it. Human to human contact is necessary.

Again,. Why does the ot differ from the nt if God is all knowing, all powerful etc
?

Because humanity needs to learn and evolve over time from the days of Adam and Eve to current times. The OT was pre Jesus. So different rules applied, see the covenants for those. After Jesus (who was prophesied in the OT) the new covenant applies. This is how God has chosen to do things. I believe in His wisdom over my own.

Why does god make it his word all so confusing , whereby to this day people are still arguing the facts of the Bible?

Well, firstly re Genesis, it isn't a scientific paper, it's written in a way that mankind could grasp, in the days of Moses. Pre Moses the actual details would have been passed down from Adam and Eve thence to Noah, and the history of what happened pre-flood came down from Noah to Moses who wrote it down. Today we expect some kind of scientific treatise, but we don't have that, which leaves space for people to come up with their own interpretation of what happened.

Remember too that humanity is fallen, and Satan rules this realm for now, so there will always be lies, dishonesty, misinformation and twisting of scripture that goes on. We fight against this all the time.

What do you mean the ot was pre Jesus? Surely, God knew Jesus before the ot if he is the son of him?

Why does Satan rule this realm for now? In what way is he ruling? Can you give examples and in what form?

You say God wants to partner with humanity, can you give examples where he does this now, today?

What do you mean the ot was pre Jesus? Surely, God knew Jesus before the ot if he is the son of him?

The OT was pre the incarnation of Jesus. Yes He was with the father from the beginning.

Why does Satan rule this realm for now? In what way is he ruling? Can you give examples and in what form?

Humanity transferred allegiance to Satan at the Garden of Eden. By rebelling against God, humanity are automatically aligned with Satan. God is allowing Satan to rule for now, until his time is complete and human rebellion runs its course. Then Jesus returns.

Jesus said: (Matthew 12:30) “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters."

You only need look around at the level of evil and lawlessness in the world at all levels, both personal and governments.

You say God wants to partner with humanity, can you give examples where he does this now, today?

Every day we partner with God to do good things, like helping the sick, giving to those in need, helping to bring peace in disputes, creating things that bring joy, growing crops and feeding people. It's an endless list.

@RedTagAlan

It would also detract from the topic of that particular Pagan thread.

In any case, I am able to link to a couple of direct journal papers, rather than a summary page from the PE:

Anomalous Information Reception by Research Mediums Under Blinded Conditions II_ Replication and Extension

KEL13JNMD-2011-Mediumship-Paper.pdf

Every day we partner with God to do good things, like helping the sick, giving to those in need, helping to bring peace in disputes, creating things that bring joy, growing crops and feeding people. It's an endless list.

You don’t need god involved to do any of those things. Atheists do it because it’s the right thing to do, part of every day life and not because your god wants us to.

Sacrifice to God at the Temple for sin used to take place largely in the form of animals, they would lose their life, It involved a lot of procedure with the priests and I don't want to criticise, but it seemed possible to do this without being sincere for wrong doing in God's eyes. Jesus took a lot of this procedure away. There was Yom Kippur before once a year at the Temple when God would come down as the Divine Presence to meet a high priest. I cannot see this working as well today with the many numbers who worship God today.

I didn't say we 'need' God to partner with us. I explained this is how He can work. People don't always have the right motivation to do these things, either, sometimes they do it for their own glory.

Very sad if a Christian needs a motivation from god to do the right thing when atheists just do it for the right reasons.

Not all atheists do it for the right reasons. People can be self-motivated. Maybe they're trying to impress others, improve their standing in society, feel good about themselves, bond with others or do what others in their friendship group do.

And not all Christians do the right thing regardless of any motivation from god.

Correct.

I did say a NEW thread.

I am following that Pagan thread. Sure is an eye raiser. I have no intention of posting there. Unless a Cristian starts preaching.

I was going to mention that the article chosen should be readable to a layperson :-)

The article opens for me, but what is it saying ? What does this conclusion mean ?

"The statistical significance and effect sizes of (1) comparisons between blinded target and decoy readings regarding the estimated percent accuracy of reading items (n ¼ 27, 37.0% vs. 24.5% for Free-Form sections, P ¼ .05, d ¼ 0.49), (2) comparisons between blinded target and decoy readings regarding the calculated percentage accuracy of reading items (n ¼ 31, 52.8% vs. 36.6% for Five-Questions sections, P ¼ .002, d ¼ 0.75), (3) comparisons between blinded target and decoy readings regarding hits vs. misses ratios (n ¼ 31, P o .0001, V ¼ 0.165 for Five-Questions sections and P ¼ .002, V ¼ 0.118 for Free-Form sections), (4) comparisons between blinded target and decoy readings regarding global reading scores (n ¼ 58, 2.88 vs. 2.09, P ¼ .001, d ¼ 0.57), and (5) forced-choice reading selections between blinded target and decoy readings (n ¼ 58, 38/58, P ¼ .01) successfully replicate and extend previous findings14 demonstrating the phenomenon of anomalous information reception (AIR), the reporting of accurate and specific information about discarnates without prior knowledge about the discarnates or sitters, in the absence of any sensory feedback, and without using deceptive means. The findings from this AIRII study were of a similar direction and significance to those reported in the original AIR study regarding the global score (AIRII: P ¼ .001, d ¼ 0.5; AIR: P ¼ .007, d ¼ 0.57) and forced-choice findings (AIRII: P ¼ .01; AIR: P ¼ .01)"

?

Can you walk us through it ?

I HAVE ANNECDOTAL EVIDENCE..... ( of something).

Google is banned where I am, so I use BING. And what I find with threads like this, where I am using BING a lot to look things Bible and Christian connected up, is that the number of Christian adverts that are fed to me on other sites rises significantly. That is anecdotal evidence. Churches are paying BING to target their ads at me.

Speculate to accumulate eh. Churches spend massive amounts of money of recruiting new members,

Now I can't find data on my web about how much is spent of Christian advertising, but if anyone has a Church and they want to increase their revenue, then no problem. There are Cristian companies ready to advise.

How much should your church spend on marketing? | ResourceUMC

Another one here. Very glossy website. And a convention it seems.

Home - Church Communications Group

It is big business.

$1.2 trillion in the USA.

Faith-Based Fortune: The $1.2 Trillion Impact of Religion on the U.S. Economy – Michigan Journal of Economics (umich.edu)

Real Christians ?

Did Jesus not say to sell all and give to the poor ?

Yeah, but Pastors just need one more private jet.

Churches are paying BING to target their ads at me.

More likely trying to grab Christians from smaller churches!

Churches spend massive amounts of money of recruiting new members,

Mega churches, yep. Not the smaller ones. I think your data is coming from US sources? The first link (How much should your church spend on marketing), under point number 2 a study by the Center for Church Communication, and I looked them up, a US company, but I think not active now. The AI blurb about them says: "It is best known for running Church Marketing Sucks, an online platform providing practical advice, creative ideas, and discussions for church communicators" That name made me chuckle a bit. However I found: "We’re taking a break to go away and dream it all up again" (in 2019), and the CFCC don't look active either, so that study will be at least 5 years out of date if not more.

https://churchmarketingsucks.com/

Doesn't mean other companies don't exist of course.

The small UK churches I know about really struggle to get enough funds to keep going. So if anyone has a Church and they want to increase their revenue, then no problem I think this doesn't apply in the UK, because there are definitely problems.

In terms of needing funds, you realise churches are very expensive to maintain - the buildings, that is, unless you use a hall or something instead. They cost a fortune to heat and repair. It's a shame some of our (UK) historic churches are falling into disrepair because of this.

It is big business. $1.2 trillion in the USA.

Yes, in the US, but Christianity is worldwide and it's not 'big business' everywhere. The US is a wealthy country, they can pour insane amounts of money into whatever takes their fancy. Probably best not to base your opinions on Christianity solely on what goes on in the US.

Did Jesus not say to sell all and give to the poor ? Yes He did. Of course He also meant looking after those in one's own congregation, but that wouldn't have extended to private jets!

@RedTagAlan

I started it as a discussion (as well as to provide information) on why pagans don't proselytise, as I get the impression that some people have the perception that proselytisation is an innate factor or most/all religions.