Do you believe in god?

[Unicorndreams24]

i have recently been thinking a lot about religion and wondering how many believe in god and also what made you come to the decision of believing?

Still waiting for a response on this…

Some Christians believe marriage is only between a man and a woman. There are other religions which believe the same. Is everyone now to be forced to marry same sex couples in their buildings? Try that with a mosque- I’ll wait.

And what of those churches which don’t have clergy or own property? How do you propose to force them to conduct same sex marriages? Again, I’ll wait.

I’m old enough to remember the demands for civil partnership by same sex couples- “that's all we want” - they said. But it wasn’t enough. Next civil marriage was demanded and granted. Still not enough. Now some churches will conduct same sex weddings. Still not enough. So you demand it must be all churches. And will you insist on the same for all religions? Again, I’ll wait.

anybody?

Tolerance has to go both ways or it's not tolerance. Rights always come with responsibilities to others, as well as to one's self and beliefs. Rights will always conflict: contrary to popular slogans, they are a 'pie'. Maintaining a peaceful yet free society depends on compromise and negotiation: tolerance, as you say, but it must be boundaried and mutual.

UK equality law protects against discrimination on grounds of religion/philosophy, just as it does against homophobia. There's an obvious conflict when same-sex couples desire their unions to be blessed by a religion that deems their relationship sinful.

Personally, I don't understand why such a couple would want to be joined within such a religion: I would take it to mean this church or religion was not for me. I'm neither gay nor religious, but there's a clear parallel in that it wouldn't be reasonable of me to demand public validation by the vicar of my atheism. All he's required to do is tolerate my philosophy, not celebrate it.

Trying to force someone to disavow their own rights in favour of yours is the opposite of tolerance; it's abuse.

Good job it’s 2026 then.

I believe that anyone should be able to get married in whatever church they are aligned to. The only one I have some knowledge of is the Church of England because that’s where my friends attend. I don’t know anyone else who attends any church although from their school days DT’s have friends of different religions.
Why shouldn’t people demand that their church supports them? Seems a one way street otherwise.

Here’s the thing, if you want a baby ‘christened’ you don’t go to a credobaptist church and demand they comply with your wishes, not even if that has been your church since the dawn of time and it’s “part of your village and community” .

No, you find a church which offers what you’re seeking and you go there and enjoy a wonderful happy day. Peace.

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Not very welcoming and open minded is this religion of yours?

What are your thoughts on same sex marriages?

Why shouldn’t people demand that their church supports them?

Because a church isn't a counselling service? Churches are centres for religious activity. There are plenty of centres for nuptial activity without religion. Your friends could get married at the registry office or a castle, for example.

It's like asking why white singers shouldn't demand inclusion in a black choir, or why underweight people shouldn't demand that Slimming World support them.

Hahaha! Yes, good point!

Yes. I am totally happy to admit I was wrong about where the pig thing happened. And I am totally happy to admit I did not know about it being a Romano Greek area.

I still think my idea about Jesus using it to show he was enforcing Mosaic law is valid though.

But at the end of the day, it does not matter to me. I won't be going to hell because I don't believe a Bible story, or the Bible.

Apostasy. an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith

The JWs are big on this. Abandon their specific system and change church, that makes you an apostate. Changing from one religion to another is also apostasy. Or is certainly considered as such by some religions.

A sort of example here. Sorry I can't find a better one, government limited internet strikes again.

Saudi convert to Christianity faces two court cases amid threats of violence | Barnabas Aid

Same god by the way.

:-)

They don’t want a registry office or castle wedding- they would like to be married in the village church they attend. They support their church as practicing Christians but now their church isn’t supporting them because they are two gay men. A man and woman can be married in the church but not two men.
Time for churches and religion to move with current culture.

The serious, deep-thought answer to this would be that they should engage in some long discussions with their priest/pastor/vicar about homosexuality and its place within the faith practised by their church, maybe leading to further inquiry via the church's arbitration service and/or its higher officials.

It's reasonable to suppose their church's representative has done this moral examination. Maybe they have not.

You seem to be seeing churches as social clubs, which is understandable given your overview of your children's involvement. Community and social activities are certainly a big part of their mission, very often central to their outreach programmes. This outreach is, at bottom, to communicate their religious values and beliefs. The social aspect is secondary to the religion.

I don’t see church as a social club, although isn’t it meant to be the heart of the community with an open door?
I only go to church to show visitors the cathedral where we live (we’re not in the uk but our city does have an amazing looking cathedral - part of the tourist attraction route).

This situation only bothers me because it negatively impacts two amazing people who are some of our best friends.

Poor sod, @RedTagAlan (your link re Saudi). I wonder what happened to A, his sister and his nephew? If they ended up suffering 'natural justice', I don't suppose we'd hear about it 😥

One of many reasons I'll never go there, no matter how interested I am in some of its assets: were I to say I'm an atheist, or even not Muslim, I'd be breaking the law.

I’m really sorry for the pain this causes your friends. It is clear that you care about them deeply. I think part of the difficulty here is that Christians understand the church slightly differently from how it’s often described culturally or by non-believers.

Biblically, the church isn’t primarily a social club or even just the ‘heart of the community’, though it should always intend to be welcoming and hospitable. The church is the gathered people of God, centred on worship of Jesus, the preaching of the Bible, and the call to repentance and new life (Acts 2:42). Its doors are open to people from every nation, background, and story – absolutely so – but it also asks everyone, without exception, to submit to Christ as Lord. That’s why there are people who remain celibate and single where they believe they cannot submit to God’s design for marriage.

So I can understand why this feels personal and painful when it affects people you love. But from within a biblical framework, the church isn’t trying to exclude people from community or dignity; it’s trying to be faithful to what it believes God has revealed. Christianity holds together two things that are often pulled apart: a clear call to repentance, and a deep commitment to love people as they are. All of us are called to bring our lives under Jesus’ lordship, and all of us fall short and rely on grace.

I appreciate that this may not be the view you or your friends share, and I don’t expect it to be persuasive if you don’t start from the Bible. But it does explain why a church that seeks to teach Scripture faithfully draws the lines where it does, while still aiming to treat every person with respect, compassion, and love. It invites us and welcomes us in, but to turn away from our past behaviour. I’m not sure how one could call Jesus their Lord and Saviour otherwise (which is someone’s personal decision!)

My friends are practicing Christians - although I have no idea why considering how they have been treated.

There was a time when the Church of England performed both religious and administrative functions in England and Wales. Members of other religions had to marry in their local.CoE and sign the official registry there. They could also marry in their own chapel or church or synagogue, but those marriages couldn't be registered anywhere apart from the local CoE. The situation was remedied during the 19th century.

IME this state of affairs was a really bad thing for the CoE. Functioning as and ever afterwards being identified as an arm of the state has never worked out well for the religious role of any church.

I think there's a hint of the idea that a church is part of the civil administration in your post. The CoE has sought for the last century to make itself relevant as an organization focused solely on religion with its former role as an arm of the state shelved. Hence its stance on various matters.

The idea expressed in several posts on this thread that it's high time churches adapted to modern society reflects a very CoE standpoint as that body searches for its place in modern society.

Many other churches otoh are content to stick to their core message.

Agree.

It's actually what caused the Henrician Reformation.

This discussion has descended into the usual discussion about assorted religious dogmas and the divisive minutiae of their rules.
This has nothing to do with whether someone believes in god but whether they believe in the various cults to which people hitch their wagons and use to try and control others.
Let's have a discussion about whether and why one might believe in the existence of a god as the OP asked.

While this couple might not be in a position to create an entire schism and a new official national church 👑✝👬😂... there are specifically LGBT Christian churches in most European countries and others. Haven't bothered reading any of their ecumenical justifications, though I'm sure they have them.

Clearly, not everyone agrees with you that this is a descent, or irrelevant to the original question.

You seem to feel there is more to be said. So, go on ...

Some amazing people who are some of my best friends don’t want to be forced to throw away the definition of marriage that Christian churches have held for two millennia. Looks like an impasse to me.

I’m all ears

In your view a marriage can only be between a man and a woman?

Thank you. You expressed that very helpfully. Also, this helped clarify the significant divisions within the Church of England at present. There are many who may feel compelled to leave as the Church moves away from its traditional doctrinal foundations, and ceases to teach the gospel.

There’s a helpful book on this by Sam Allberry called: ‘Is God Anti-Gay?’ I think it is a clear exposition of the Bible’s teaching on this area, and can be a useful summary if one hasn’t read the Bible or studied its teachings on sexuality.