Do you believe in god?

[Unicorndreams24]

i have recently been thinking a lot about religion and wondering how many believe in god and also what made you come to the decision of believing?

Well there it is ... prime example of religions causing division.
All that is needed is to live by kindness whether a believer in God or not.

They have chosen to belong to a church which doesn’t marry people of the same sex. That’s their decision. There are other churches which marry same sex people, but according to the information given they’ve chosen one which doesn’t.
I think the remedy is fairly straightforward.

The remedy is discriminatory. They have belonged to the Church of England their whole lives. If DH and I had wanted to be married in the Church of England we could have but two gays can’t.
Why should they have to change church whether a straight couple wouldn’t have to?

such discrimination would be illegal in other parts of our lives.

Yes, the State needs to step up and stop giving religious institutions a free pass to practice their bigotry.

Equalities legislation either applies universally or not at all. Just because you believe your religion gives you a free pass to be a homophobe doesn't mean you are not actually a homophobe.

Thanks for your question. I think I’ve explained before what I believe the Bible says on this but if you’ve not read my other posts above I’ll try to summarise what they’ve said. No, not being perfect is exactly why Christians believe we need Jesus.

The gospel isn’t that heaven is for people who meet a moral standard, but that it’s a gift of grace. Christians believe Jesus lived the life we couldn’t and restores our relationship with God, so our hope isn’t in our own goodness but in his. Salvation isn’t earned by being perfect; it’s received. I hope this makes sense as to what I believe and trust in. It may be different to your belief.

Well there it is ... prime example of religions causing division.
All that is needed is to live by kindness whether a believer in God or not.

One can’t help being slightly bemused by the obvious clamour for acceptance of diversity in every sphere of life and yet the simultaneous rejection of diversity in Christian churches. The double standard is breathtaking.

Here’s the truth-
and it may come as a shock-
not all churches think alike 🫣

and within that, not all differences are salvific. example - some churches strongly believe in and practice paedobaptism, others strongly believe in and practice credobaptism. Yet we still recognise each other (whose consciences have led us to a different conclusion) as brothers and sisters in Christ. If only those outside churches could find a similar willingness to accept difference, but it seems only absolute uniformity is acceptable, and only uniformity which ticks all their own personal preference boxes.

My personal position is
in essentials, unity
in non-essentials, liberty
in all things, charity

I doubt if any of us has understood everything perfectly. We each do our best to come to a conclusion which we believe to be correct. The Lord sees our hearts and knows those who are His. Peace.

So here we have a call for the state to force people to defile their own conscience in the name of tolerance.

I’m not surprised that decentralised expressions of local churches who meet outside mainstream denominations are growing exponentially worldwide, particularly in countries where state persecution is severe, but also increasingly in the “free” west. I’m glad God has placed me in such a church.

Conscience?

Which other service can refuse to entertain a request they honour for others for no other reason than the request is coming from a homosexual person?

The issue is a lack of conscience. The inability to comprehend that bigotry is still bigotry even when it's rooted in religious belief.

Which other protected characteristics do you think we should tolerate religion discriminating upon? Race? Disability? Age? None of these?

If not, why not? And why is it ok to discriminate on the basis of sexuality?

One can’t help being slightly bemused by the obvious clamour for acceptance of diversity in every sphere of life and yet the simultaneous rejection of diversity in Christian churches. The double standard is breathtaking

Utter rot.

This isn't a "rejection of diversity", it's a rejection of bigoted privilege.

To label this "diversity" is no different to the disgusting right-wing tactic of labelling hateful views "opinions" then complaining about "freedom of speech" when others take exception, and whining that "lefties" simply can not accept a difference of "opinion".

I have no issue with Christians. I have no issue with the fact they are different to me, I have no issue with their "diversity".

I do have an issue with bigots doing bigoted things then hiding behind "belief".

The Lord sees our hearts and knows those who are His. Peace.

unless you’re gay?

So here we have a call for the state to force people to defile their own conscience in the name of tolerance.

yes - everyone should be forced to be tolerant. What in your conscience wouldn’t accept gays? Discrimination is never acceptable.

A church is not a “service”.

Some Christians believe marriage is only between a man and a woman. There are other religions which believe the same. Is everyone now to be forced to marry same sex couples in their buildings? Try that with a mosque- I’ll wait.

And what of those churches which don’t have clergy or own property? How do you propose to force them to conduct same sex marriages? Again, I’ll wait.

I’m old enough to remember the demands for civil partnership by same sex couples- “that’s all we want” - they said. But it wasn’t enough. Next civil marriage was demanded and granted. Still not enough. Now some churches will conduct same sex weddings. Still not enough. So you demand it must be all churches. And will you insist on the same for all religions? Again, I’ll wait.

edited for typo

So you do have issues with Christians (and presumably Muslims and other people of other faiths) who believe marriage is only between a man and a woman and don’t want to participate in a same sex wedding.

Got it.

I’ve not spoken about my personal opinions in this debate.

Thanks for clarifying that you would force people to “be tolerant”.

What sorts of measures would you like the state to take to force someone to comply with your notion of ”tolerance”?

I actually agree with you on principle here, because at face value, it is personal choice to be CofE or not.

BUT... and it is a VERY BIG BUT... if they choose to go to a different Church, then that would make them apostates in the eyes of the CofE.

And this really just can't be handwaved away. Because if they are baptised into a particular Church, been brought up and educated in that Church system, then they likely would consider it a sin to abandon that Church, their Church.

So really, they are probably a product of that Church, and if that Church can't accommodate them then is it not an issue for that Church ?

That's a Biblical size cop out.

:-)

It's just a discussion here. I don't think any posters in this thread will be angry or judgemental if you share what your particular Church position is.

Well, other Christians might be. Hmm,

I was baptised in a particular church as an adult after I came to faith in Christ. A few years later the Lord led me to another church, to which I went with the blessings of my first church. Over the past 45 years I’ve had several “moves” as He has led. I’ve never heard any notion that at any time this was sin much less apostasy.

Is this another of your own personal novel doctrines (like that of the exorcism of Legion) or has someone taught you this bizarre idea?

It’s the truth, though.🤷‍♀️

“I don't think any posters in this thread will be angry or judgemental if you share what your particular Church position is”

my dear, you have great faith 🤣
Seriously though, my personal position on this is irrelevant.

Of course people should be forced to be tolerant - it’s the basis of an open minded and fair society.
Whats your personal opinion - other posters have been very open about their own opinions whereas you have just copied and pasted text.

My friends are part of the Church of England- they don’t want to change their church, it’s a part of their village and community.

That’s their choice then. 🤷‍♀️

Whereas if DH and I were a part of their church, we wouldn’t face the same discrimination.

Legion was just an idea I had. Happy to be proven wrong on that. The NT uses different names for the place in different versions, early versions I mean.

My point is though, that you might not consider it a sin to move denomination, but other believers might.

I don't have any personal doctrines. I am not religious.

Churches do split all the time over doctrine of course, that's why there are so many different ones. The Nigerian Anglicans have just split from the Anglicans over women bishops.

And the CofE does have an apostasy thing, though not over gay folk.

Former Queen's Chaplain Warns of Apostasy and Collapse Within the Church - Charisma Magazine Online (mycharisma.com)

Atheists are just atheists when it comes to gods. We just don't believe in them.

But theists ? They don't seem to be able to agree on much at all.

:-)

Well since you brought it up again… Decapolis" (Greek for "Ten Cities") is used consistently across New Testament manuscripts and early versions to refer to the same specific, predominantly Gentile, region of Hellenistic cities east of the Jordan River (except for Scythopolis). Oh well.

back to the subject in hand, you say “the CofE does have an apostasy thing” …see gif above :-)