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Original poster

Quick Question - was the bible important to god's plan?

92 replies

Greyriverside · 31/05/2008 19:55

If so then why didn't he make sure that everyone got to read one?

I mean if it was inspired/dictated by god and was an essential part of the deal. "read and obey or go to hell" then surely that's unfair unless everyone gets to read one (and knows how to read of course)

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kittywise · 31/05/2008 22:39

It wasn't dictated by God it was made up by humans

God is not interested in any of that.

yama · 31/05/2008 22:46

Now I'm guessing but it may go something like this (if you believe that God has chosen to reveal something of his attributes and plan):

God communicates to certain people at certain times.

People communicate this message to other people.

Just so happens that our method of communication for the last few thousand years has been the the written word.

That make sense?

Original poster
Greyriverside · 31/05/2008 22:47

So you believe in god, but that the bible was written by humans. So how did you know to believe in god?
Perhaps more importantly how did god expect you to believe in him if you'd never heard of him at all.

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Original poster
Greyriverside · 31/05/2008 22:49

That was to kittywise, but it's the same question really. How did god expect you to know about him if he didn't tell you?

He was just hoping you'd hear a rumour from a stranger and change your life round on that basis

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yama · 31/05/2008 22:59

GRS - the history of religions is very interesting. The psychology behind why some people believe in God and have religious experiences is also fascinating.

I suppose the question you might be asking is:

Is God a projection of the best in humanity or does God actually exist?

BrownSuga · 31/05/2008 23:06

Gen 3:9 says God kept calling to the man (Adam) saying where are you? So when A&E were perfect in GoE he talked to them. If we were perfect now (ie A&E hadn't sinned) we wouldn't have needed the Bible as it discusses how sin entered the world, history of early mankind, and what is in store. 2 Tim 3:16 says all scripture is inspired of God. (even though he used man to write it down).

Throughout the ages many men have tried to translate it for the common people and were martyred for it.

I guess in the first instance you need to believe the Bible is in fact the inspired word of God not just a man written story.

Original poster
Greyriverside · 31/05/2008 23:26

Yama, The psychology behind why some people believe in God is indeed interesting. but I wasn't asking 'Is God a projection of the best in humanity or does God actually exist?" or anything so vague.

If the bible is not available to everyone then how can god expect someone who never heard of him to obey him?

That surely makes nonsense of the whole thing.

Brownsuga, you say "you need to believe the Bible is in fact the inspired word of God" and that makes sense if one is a christian. If there had been no bible then there could be no christianity at all.

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Original poster
Greyriverside · 31/05/2008 23:27

and yet there are people who never got to see the bible. A mistake on gods part?

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yama · 31/05/2008 23:34

Yes, I'm sorry GRS.

The context in which say Genesis was written was a time when most people could not read or write. The oral word carried stories from generation to generation.

The Bible (OT or NT) wasn't written at a time when there was a high literacy rate.

Christians would say (I suppose) that we shouldn't second guess God.

DutchOma · 01/06/2008 07:44

You ask "WAS the Bible important to God's plan" and I think the answer has to be "Yes, it was and still is".
That's why it is important for us who believe in the God of the Bible to make it as widely known as possible.
I suppose the next question will be:-" Well, if you do believe that the Bible is God's word, then how come people can do such bloody awful things, based on the Bible ie burning people at the stake and George Bush starting the Iraq war, all based on the Bible."
These questions come from an inexperience of who God is and what He is trying to do.

There are no answers to these questions that we can understand.
God is who He is and He has chosen to communicate through the Bible of which we can all understand enough to lead the life that God wants us to lead.
We none of us do.

SummatAndNowt · 01/06/2008 08:12

Hmmm... God as programmer of robotic child v. God as father of humans with free will.

kittywise · 01/06/2008 08:15

greyriverside, God makes you aware of himself without a book!

I do not believe that each religion has a separate God ( although they would like to think they have) I believe that God is the universal spirit/ energy. At some point we all go back there, but there are many possible paths to take, none more valid than the other.

All humans have felt this life force energy throughout history. There have been beings such as Jesus and Buddha who attained enlightenment and have had religions built up around them.

God does not expect us to believe in him, he just is and he is available to everyone.

You do not need a fabricated text to show you the way, as I said God is available to everyone whatever part of the world they come from and whatever their creed, it's all the same really.

It's humans who have made it different, tried to claim it as true to their particular believe system and religion.

These religions are still used as a form of control over others and have very little to do with knowing god.

Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 10:11

Dutchoma, actually that wasn't my next question though it's a good one. If as you say 'He has chosen to communicate through the Bible' can you explain how that is fair when many people never had the chance to read it?
In fact if you take everyone who lived in the least 6,000 years the vast majority would be illiterate and could not know if they were being told what was actually written.

kittywise, I like your god better than most of the others. Though I suspect the christians would have you burnt at the stake for that, if the muslims didn't get you first

Yama, I'm sure you're right about the way traditions were passed on through each generation. It couldn't help, but get remade each time. It would have grown and developed

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ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 10:26

The Christian faith is a revealed faith, and most of this revelation takes place via the Bible.

The reading and listening to Scripture has always been important in the Judaism and Christianity. Jesus himself used Scripture often in his own teaching. Throughout the Gospels and Letters, there are references to Scripture. In the Church of England liturgy, the whole bible is read on a three-yearly cycle.

Our duty as Christians is to tell others the Good News, and this includes making sure that as many people as possible have access to a Bible (either the book in some form, or the spoken word). My church is always giving away bibles, and we do a lot of fund raising to support sending bibles into traditionally non-Christian countries. One of our major mission partners is The Bible Society.

Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 10:44

ScienceTeacher, what about those who never had the chance to read the bible? Whatever their fate it must surely be unfair?

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InLoveWithSweeneyTodd · 01/06/2008 11:11

oral tradition

DutchOma · 01/06/2008 11:19

The Bible is not the only way God reveals Himself. He is there in nature and in many other ways.
How He is going to deal with people who never heard of Him is His problem.
I have heard and I know and I am grateful to have that relationship with Him.
There are so many ways in which we can 'accuse' God of not 'being fair', it's just a dead end.

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 13:05

GR,

But we know that our God is a just and loving God. He will do right by these people. All we know is what our duty is, and that is to tell others about the Christian faith. One of the ways we can do this is to share the Bible with them.

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 13:06

Yes, DutchOma. He reveals himself through Creation and via the Holy Spirit, as well as the Bible.

Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 14:38

ScienceTeacher, If you know god will sort out those who never heard of the bible what is the advantage of giving out bibles?

If it's to the recipients advantage to have a bible then by definition they would be disadvantaged by not having one. If there is a disadvantage to not having a bible then god has been unfair to those deprived of one. (he could have made sure everyone got one from the start)
If god isn't being unfair then there is no advantage to having a bible.

DutchOma, unless looking at nature somehow shows you the specific rules god requires you to obey then those are just empty words.

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Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 14:43

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd, if by 'oral tradition' you mean they got to know the contents without actually owning the book that is fine, but many will not have heard of it at all. Therefore they have lost out.

Also if 'oral tradition' is acceptable that means a stranger could come up to you and say this:

"This is a bible. I know you can't read it so I'll tell you what it says"
"page 1. rape all the woman cos I say so, signed god"

Silly isn't it. No one agrees to a contract if they can't know what it really says.

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ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 14:43

We tell others about the Christian faith because we were commanded to in the Great Commission.

Coming to faith in Jesus Christ has life-changing consequences. It means having a relationship with God, and consequently a full life.

The Christian faith is all about relationships - vertical up to God, and horizontal across to other people. God does not force this relationship upon anyone. He merely invites us to have this relationship with him. The choice is the individual's.

We are the hands and feet of Jesus. We have bibles, and God uses us to make them available to others.

Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 14:47

ScienceTeacher, So you can't think of an answer that fits either? I thought not, but wanted to be sure. You're educated so if you can't then I'm pretty sure no other christian can. Thank you.

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ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 14:50

An answer that fits what?

Are you sure you are coming to this thread looking for answers, or was your mind already made up from the start?

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd · 01/06/2008 14:56

grey, the whole point of missionaries was to spread the word of God and convert people who had never heard of it.

In your OP you talk about the necessity of knowing how to read. That is not so, since people use to go to mass precisely to hear the scripture, amongst other things.

I suppose a stranger could also turn up at school and teach our children that 2 + 2 = 5 and that dinosaurs had 100 legs and 4 arses. Since the very little ones cannot read and there aren't any dinosaurs around, there is a risk.

There is an element of trust in all kinds of teaching.

Why would someone follow a stranger talking bollocks that contradict the teachings of your ancestors and the teachings of respectd people with globally accepted moral authority is beyond me.