Quick Question - was the bible important to god's plan?

[Greyriverside]

If so then why didn't he make sure that everyone got to read one?

I mean if it was inspired/dictated by god and was an essential part of the deal. "read and obey or go to hell" then surely that's unfair unless everyone gets to read one (and knows how to read of course)

The bible was written by men who have interpreted God's words in their own way.
So I think no.

I asked in the OP if any christian could explain this particular flaw in the bible/salvation thing. Clearly you can't or you would have. It's a pretty straightforward question.

"was the bible important to god's plan? and If so then why didn't he make sure that everyone got to read one?"

So I shall regard that one as settled unless someone comes along shortly with any kind of answer at all.

There is no sensible answer because the bible is just a collection of old stories.

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd, you seem muddled so take it one step at a time.

Imagine a secluded place where they never heard of god, the bible or anything related.
Not at all
Not even a little bit
Not on TV and not in poetry
Not on scraps of paper in bottles floating in the sea
They know nothing of god ok?.

Now how are they supposed to obey gods commandments?

How are they supposed to know that there are commandments to obey?

grey, God never talked about "the bible", as a book that should be written and published.
it contains the word of God, as inspired by Him, but it was written by men and oral tradition is crucial to understand its meaning. God couldn't care less whether the word of God was to be spread in writing or orally or by sign language, as long as His message was known and understood and shared.
The Bible is a product of men. a good hint of this fact is that different relgions accept as canonical different sets of bible books.
I am very suprised at the OP question tbh.
What Bible do you read by the way. It cannot be the Bible of Jerusalem, this one is fully commented and solves many questions you post here.

grey, it is funny you accuse other people about muddling things up. You, of all people

you seem to use a patronising approach with me for some reason. Is it because you cannot understand my English?

Was the bible important to God's plan? Yes, it is important. Scripture has always been important and there is plenty of evidence from throughout history as to the importance of scripture.

Why didn't he make sure that everyone got to read one?

Reasonable levels of literacy are a figment of relatively recent history, so personal reading of the bible would not be something that would have been relevent historically. What we do know is that there was much reading of the bible by those who could read to those who couldn't. If you read the Gospels, including Acts, and the Letters, you will see a lot of references to Old Testament scripture in the teaching. The people did get to hear scripture, even if they couldn't read it themselves. Within the Christian church, bible reading is very important. I don't know of any denominations that do not have at least one bible reading in their services. Some churches have three or four readings in each service, as well has many quotations from the bible in spoken liturgy. Hymns and songs of praise also rely heavily on biblical quotes.

We only know for sure about God's will for his people (all people) because of what it says in the bible. We can infer beyond that because the nature of God is revealed in the bible. We know what plans God has for those of us who have made a decision to leave our old lives behind and follow Jesus. We do not know for sure what his plans are for those who have never, ever heard of him.

Because we know what God wants us to do, and he has commanded us to tell others about him, then that is clear that this is what we need to do. God uses his followers to reach out to other people. He may also use signs and wonders but we don't know for sure because the bible does not tell us everything that we want to know, just everything we need to know for salvation. We would not expect God to leave copies of the bible under some kind of gooseberry bush for unwitting people to discover - God uses us to do his earthly work. Besides, everyone who lives in a relatively free country does have access to a bible by visiting a bookshop!

Revelation through the bible is one way that God develops a relationship with people. It is not the only way. And while it may be the most important way for many Christians today to learn about the nature of God, it is not necessarily the same for everyone.

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd, You keep talking as though everyone already knew about the bible. So I will say it again.

Imagine a secluded place where they never heard of god, the bible or anything related.
Not at all
Not even a little bit
Not on TV and not in poetry
Not on scraps of paper in bottles floating in the sea
They know nothing of god ok?.

Now how are they supposed to obey gods commandments?

How are they supposed to know that there are commandments to obey?

Btw I mostly studied the King James Version.

The bible was not written for those people though, Grey.

It was written for people who have heard of God.

Science teacher. So if someone dies without ever hearing that there was a god or bible they will not be in the least disadvantaged?

Don't get hung up on the actual reading if that is confusing the issue. What if they never had any knowledge of the bible at all?

They will be disadvantaged in that they will not have had as full a life, nor will they have the promise of the greatest ever party!

ScienceTeacher, you are assuming then that the Bible is a faithful rendition of thoughts/events/ teachings thousands of years ago?

I rather think it has been manipulated , and rewritten by those powerful enough to know that by putting their own particular spin on events they could exert an ENORMOUS amount of control over a vast number of people and then do dreadful things 'in God's name'

There is much evidence to show that the version of the Bible we have come to trust has been put together in such a way as to make the 'truth' impossible to judge.

I am indeed assuming that, Kittywise. All Scripture is God-breathed...

Historically the bible was not meant to be read by the great unwashed. It was originally in Latin for a start.

Only the priests could read from the scriptures and what they told people is anyone's guess.

The whole purpose of religious art and the stained glass windows was that the illiterate could still understand the message being told.

The point about tribes isolated from the rest of the world is an interesting one.
Almost all tribes have had some form of supernatural force which is worshipped and appeased as a way to explain the elements of nature. This is really no different than having one God responsible for everything else.
For this belief system you clearly do not need a book.
Where you will likely fail in your argument on this thread GRS is the retort "because that's the way God intended it and it's not for us to question Him"

It's a no brainer

GRS, I think the easiest thing is to let people believe what they want, no matter how fantastic and frankly illogical and impossible it might be.

It is a hugely important facet of human growth to have a spiritual dimension.

It really does not matter what religion or belief system people have or how they believe it to be true( as long as they do not advocate killing/ maming of others, in which case that aspect of the religion is a load of old bollocks anyway).

Sorry but the Bible was NOT written in Latin!!

The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Greek.

Ok, those people won't know that there are any commandments to obey or how to unless someone tells them about the word of God, Christ and His teaching. That was the situation of the civilisations where missionaries went to preach and convert. They had their own gods, or deities, but had not received the revelation.

Why God didn't make sure we were all born with a pre-knowledge of His existence and the commandmetns we were supposed to follow you may ask. I think he actually did. He may not be selling bibles in the sunday markets. But he made sure men had a built-in sense of morality that is common to all of us, regardless of religion, beliefs or non-beliefs, and there is a "God-shaped vacuum" (in the words of Francis Collins) in men that it is meant to be filled.

Then he sent the apostles ("messengers") to communicate His word.

except for a few chapters written in Aramaic

We don't know for sure. We only know that to be sure, you have to be in a relationship with God through Jesus Christ - the way, the truth and the life.

We are fairly sure that people of God who lived before Jesus, and therefore had no knowledge of Jesus, will safely be in a relationship with God, so we believe there is scope who have had no contact whatsoever. The bible, however, only talks about those who do know God etc, and not those who don't. Besides, right up until your dying breath, you can make the life-changing decision to give up the ways of the world and to do things Jesus' way. There is always hope.

Heaven means having a permanent relationship with God free of the fallen world that we are in now. Those who do not know God now, would not be missing something they already had in life. It is really only of importance to those who already have that relationship and who have made the decision to follow Jesus.

The bible tells us everything we need to know for salvation, not everything we want to know.

Given that anyone who has seen a bible will know about God and Jesus, what they need to know for salvation is to actually follow Jesus. We also need to know that we should tell others about Jesus because we were told by someone, and it is our duty to pass this knowledge on - it makes God happy and when we are in relationship with someone, we like to do things that makes them happy.

The bible does not speak to people who have absolutely no knowledge or contact (eg those who live in a remote part of the world). It's not its purpose.

Absolutely right NOT in Latin.

However, in 382 AD Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts were produced which contained All 80 Books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).

It was from this that the English version was translated.

Furthermore in 600AD LATIN was the only language allowed for scripture.

The English version? Which one?

The NIV was translated from the original manuscripts (no Chinese whispers).

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd, so you want to resolve this dillema by saying that everyone is born knowing that god exists and the exact commandments they must follow to get their reward?

Interesting and a good try, but I doubt you'll get much backing for that from christians generally and it still has holes in it. For one thing I can tell you that I wasn't born knowing the commandments so it falls down right there.

Kittywise, there are good reasons to demonstrate the flaws in religion. It is harmful to people and society. It must not regain the hold it once had where they could control society and even burn people for disagreeing with them.

Squack, if my aim were to convert christians I'd give up now My purpose is to draw attention to the huge holes in the whole thing and allow religious people to respond and explain them. If they can't then the 100s of people reading and not posting can draw their own conclusions

I agree with that GRS

Has anyone ever heard of "A course in miracles"?

I believe bibles are translated from the originals: arameic, hebrew and greek.
I read the Spanish transltation of the Bible of Jerusalem and it was certainly translated directly from the original languages.

I was right - you weren't looking for answers. How sad.