Quick Question - was the bible important to god's plan?

[Greyriverside]

If so then why didn't he make sure that everyone got to read one?

I mean if it was inspired/dictated by god and was an essential part of the deal. "read and obey or go to hell" then surely that's unfair unless everyone gets to read one (and knows how to read of course)

I don't get your point

Ah well, we are both equally in the dark then.

Yes, but I see a light

Your question is very interesting. I am amazed at the amount of responses you got. The Bible was and still is important to God's plan.

The answwers you got were so different.

God's word (Bible) is God speaking, He only says what lines up with His words. He does not go against His Words.

The Bible is the only Living Book. He speaks about the past, present and the future. Some who read it cannot understand it, as it takes the help of the Lord to understand what the Bible means.

Some one mentions a mistake on God's part, God does not make mistakes, only people make mistakes!!

I have been a christian for over 33 years and I am still learning!!!!

Hi Mum2bless, I didn't see your post. I've been on dialup a few days while I get a new router so not been in much.

Maybe you can answer this then. If god considered the bible important and doesn't make mistakes. How is it that some people were born and died without having the chance to know what was in it? wasn't that unfair on them?

Good question. The answer depends on what you perceive the message of the Bible to be.

GreyRiverSide, if I can presume to attempt an answer for Mum2Bless, I might be able to give a response. (I haven't read the whole thread)

I'm sure it won't be popular, though. You're working (quite understandably) from the premise that Human Beings are morally neutral to begin with. But the Christian worldview doesn't begin with that assumption.

The Christian viewpoint has the notion of inherent, inherited sinfulness as the 'default' position for humankind. So, from that basis, 'fairness' is always going to be a skewed proposition. The idea is that humans are naturally skewed to choose the bad, and that God is well within His rights to zap the lot of us. But He doesn't, He chooses to give many of us His mercy.

Not asking you to like that idea (I'm not sure I like it myself) but that's the significant difference in worldview we're talking about, if that's any help.

KayHarker thank you for your reply.

God is not then in any sense a good person? not virtuous or kind or fair. This squares with my observations over the years. If god existed I wouldn't have him in my home for example. I have standards.

This view would have him creating people in a certain way which he has arbitarily predefined as 'bad'. Setting up a rule that they will be punished for that badness unless they fulfill certain conditions. Then making sure that it's impossible for them to do so.

Then I guess he runs away giggling. This is what christians look up to and wish to emulate. The next time someone asks an atheist why they care what people believe you will be able to explain it to them. God is the equivalent of a happy slapper.

I'm always impressed that you don't look at your god through rose tinted spectacles, but I don't know how you can bear what you see.

Yup, go figure. He's not my favourite person today, I can tell you that.

The slight correction I would make is that He didn't create us bad, we chose to go that way. We had a perfect representative who chose selfishness, and we follow him, more or less straight down the line.

But yes, essentially we are not capable of coming up God's standards alone, so your point is taken, and I can give you absolutely no reason why God would allow this situation. Romans chapter 9 is all the answer the bible gives, and it stumps me everytime.

But it's very much like I've taken the red pill, and now I can't not know. I can't choose not to believe what I'm intellectually and emotionally convinced is true. I don't have to like it, and right now, I really don't. But I can't reject it without just making it up, much as I'm sure you couldn't just suddenly believe in a deity you weren't convinced even existed.

You alright, Kay?

pp, yes, I'm bearing up. Just surrounded by grown adults who don't appear to be able to control themselves any better than my 2 year old, and other people who are very ill indeed and some that have died.

I guess I'm at the rock-face of human weakness and selfishness and it's getting me down, tbh.

And I don't exclude myself from that assessment, either, in case anyone gets the impression I'm pointing fingers.

So sorry to hear that, Kay. Sounds like it sucks.

We've had a gutting funeral here this week, everything made hideously more awful by enormous selfishness and even at one remove from me, it makes me furious and despondent at the same time.

I sometimes feel a bit like Peter: 'Where else have we to go?' - only one credible (ha!) option, whether I like it or not.

yes, pp, that's pretty much the bottom line.

I do have a chuckle to myself about the religion-as-crutch thing in moments like this. I own crutches, and I don't ever clobber myself over the head with them to make my life a bit harder, the way my faith does.

Crutch?

Kay, sorry to hear things are rough right now. My posts are not meant to make that worse, so feel free to ignore them or tell me to bugger off.

I liked the red pill thing - very true. Perhaps we're both wrong and it's all about Karma and you're owed some easier times.

can i just say what an interesting and informative debate this is! I feel I have learned a great deal reading it. Thank you

Thanks greyriverside, that's a very nice thing to say. Don't worry, if I'm not in a good place to try and give an answer, I'll definitely say so. But sometimes it helps to thrash it all out - I think better when I write, anyway.