Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

Quick Question - was the bible important to god's plan?

92 replies

Greyriverside · 31/05/2008 19:55

If so then why didn't he make sure that everyone got to read one?

I mean if it was inspired/dictated by god and was an essential part of the deal. "read and obey or go to hell" then surely that's unfair unless everyone gets to read one (and knows how to read of course)

OP posts:
Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 16:14

Scienceteacher >>Heaven means having a permanent relationship with God free of the fallen world that we are in now. Those who do not know God now, would not be missing something they already had in life>>

So you admit there are people who do not know god and will die not knowing that they are missing out on heaven?

You then go on to contradict that.

We are fairly sure that people of God who lived before Jesus, and therefore had no knowledge of Jesus, will safely be in a relationship with God,>>

I don't see how you can say that, but if true it means there will be none who will "die not knowing that they are missing out on heaven" so that's a contradiction.

It certainly seems to me that those knowing about god and those not are being treated differently

OP posts:
InLoveWithSweeneyTodd · 01/06/2008 16:18

No, grey. I didn't say that we are born knowing the "exact commandments" we need to follow. But I do think most people can tell right from wrong in big issues like killing other human being, stealing, betraying your husband/wife trust, etc.
Even Dawkins acknowledges men are born with a sense of morality, although he denies it has
any supernatural causes

Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 16:18

Not sad at all Perfectly happy and at peace with my life. Being a free man is very fulfilling.

OP posts:
ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 16:18

I said people of God, eg somelike like Moses or Abraham. We can be pretty sure that God has done the right thing by them, even though they did not know Jesus.

If ordinary people die with no knowledge of God, or heaven, then they won't know what they are missing out on. Only we know what they are missing out one, which is why it is our duty to tell them about God.

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd · 01/06/2008 16:20

"Perfectly happy and at peace with my life. Being a free man is very fulfilling"

Ditto for me. We agree on something at last, grey

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 16:20

Indeed Sweeney. We are all made in the image of God, which explains why most humans are good and kindly.

Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 16:21

Of course we can work out a system of morals for ourselves. We don't need gods for that. But you can't have it both ways. I ask what happens to people who have no way of knowing about god and you say about "knowing from birth". When pressed on that you admit you don't mean they know about god and the commandments from birth so that was a red herring.

InLoveWithSweeneyTodd, Once again. What happens to people who die never having heard of god so not knowing what they were meant to do about it?

OP posts:
Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 16:24

ScienceTeacher, so you admit that some people will die never knowing about god and will not go to heaven.

Is that fair on them not to have had the chance.

If your only answer is that they won't know what they are missing then I ask you if you personally are glad that you know about god. Would not knowing be a bad thing?

OP posts:
DutchOma · 01/06/2008 16:28

ScienceTeacher said they didn't get the PROMISE of the biggest party in the world (=heaven)
She didn't say they didn't get into heaven, that is for God to decide and I think that if we have any consciousness of who else is there we might well be surprised.
Personally I think that we will be so taken up with being in heaven that nothing else matters.

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 16:29

Heaven is a relationship with God. If you have never had one, then you have absolutely no concept of missing out on something.

Why do you care?

I am ecstatic that I know about God. Those who don't are missing out on a major part of their life, even if they don't realise it or stubbornly refuse to accept it.

DutchOma · 01/06/2008 16:33

And me ScienceTeacher, and me

Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 16:42

DutchOma, as you can see ScienceTeacher has just confirmed that she did indeed mean they don't get into heaven. Since you say 'that is for God to decide' I suggest you take that up with her.

ScienceTeacher, Thank you. You have established that the outcome of not knowing about god is a bad one and that god does not ensure that everyone has a chance to know about him. It is therefore established that he is treating them differently and unfairly.

I am now reporting god to the equal opportunities commission. He/She/They will have the chance to defend themselves.

God will lose the case if she (a) doesn't come up with an explanation or (b) doesn't exist.

OP posts:
Original poster
Greyriverside · 01/06/2008 16:46

I have to go for a bit, but will come back and look later on or tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the conversation/company

OP posts:
kittywise · 01/06/2008 16:57

GRS heaven is a state of mind not something that happens after death and it is available to any who are enlightened and realise their true position in the grand scheme of things.

ScienceTeacher is not right any more than the rest of us, it is a belief ONLY

Heaven has absolutely nothing to do with one single religion, no Christian can claim it as their own. It does not only come to those who worship a Christian God. It comes to all who ask for it.

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 17:29

That must be a New Age definition. Let God and Heaven conform to me and not the other way about. Me, me, me!

kittywise · 01/06/2008 17:57

But ScienceTeacher God can't be defined or owned by any religious group. God is what it is .

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 18:12

God is what what is?

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 18:12

God is what what is?

kittywise · 01/06/2008 18:16

Surely that's a given ST?

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 18:17

not really

kittywise · 01/06/2008 18:18

So God isn't what it is?

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 18:22

Can you use a noun instead of 'it'?

kittywise · 01/06/2008 18:38

Ok, how about spirit?
The spirit is what it is.
I cannot use a pronoun though "God" has no sex .

kittywise · 01/06/2008 18:40

Obviously it IS a pronoun but I prefer to use it because it is neutral/neuter

ScienceTeacher · 01/06/2008 18:41

Well, the Holy Spirit is one part of the triune God....so?

Swipe left for the next trending thread