Are religions in the 21st century more about cultural identity than a fundamental belief in supernatural beings and divine intervention?

[mids2019]

85% of people in the world believe in a religion. but in the western world at least there are few in my opinion that would attest to an understanding of a supernatural God or ihave an absolute belief in the possibility of miracles which defy well known physical.laws.

Is modern religion more a mean a of expressing cultural identity and a way of establishing common rules for living based on a religious moral code. Religion seems to be used as means of establishing a tribe with due regard to ancestry of that religious tribe that sets out an identity and a persons place in the world.

For instance I was talking to a Muslim woman and though she was devout in the sense of wearing hijab and following an Islamic code of conduct she gave little thought to nature of Allah/God, the existence of supernatural brings such as angels or the possibility of miracles. The woman thought such existential thoughts were not necessary in her day to day life and she has an absolute understanding of natural science (being in a medical field)

Are the major religions now more about tribal identity than a full belief in something greater than the physical world?

yes but my issue is with any texts , humans have wrote, rewritten, chopped, edited various versions etc all to suit different times,

overall if the texts were to be fully accurate then no human should edit the texts once they had been written

Very religious people, as you are, have always been outliers.

But that's what I've been trying to point out @theduchessofspork I'm not religious! Religion is about rituals, following 'extra' rules, doing good deeds because you think they'll help you get into Heaven etc etc. My faith is deeper than that.

Doing charitable work is not fruitless, no matter whose name you do it under.

@Sleepersausage You misunderstand. It is fruitless in the sense that it can't replace a relationship with God.

I'm sure whoever wrote the gospel now attributed to Matthew was well aware of the contents of the Nevi'im. It doesn't take the incisive powers of Sherlock Holmes to suspect that the writer of the gospel came up with 30 pieces of silver because of what was in Isiah.

I’d say no, that’s more likely to be a Western middle class take.
Christianity is growing rapidly in many countries in Africa and Asia.
I myself know many genuine believers here in London. You find a genuine church you will find genuine believers.
i have met so many beautiful people, beautiful because they know Jesus. I’m not talking about hate-filled bigots. But people who would be dead if it wasn’t for him, and who are literally now the most joy- and peace-filled people. You may not be able to see God, but people can and do experience his impact on their lives.

Accounts of the life and work of Jesus were specifically written to provide early Christians with a figurehead that fulfilled Old Testament prophecies!

You're saying you believe the followers of Jesus made it all up to fit their narrative? @FlaggyShore

To treat writings by Christians as factual reasons to believe

The Old Testament was written before Christianity existed, predominantly by Jewish authors.

Post reported. @Sleepersausage

Yes, it’s widely thought by theologians and historians of religion that the followers of Jesus were careful to construct him in terms which identified him with the long-heralded Jewish Messiah. And your second point doesn’t make sense — of course it was. Early Christian writers were linking Jesus’ actions and sayings (and heritage) back to OT prophecies, precisely because they knew about them.

This is really not an obscure piece of knowledge, @Patentlyuntrue — why is it you seem under-informed about the history of a faith that’s clearly important to you?

and @FlaggyShore

https://www.catholic.com/video/did-the-gospel-writers-pretend-jesus-was-the-messiah

I am not uninformed @FlaggyShore. I am interested in how other people see the lies that have been spun around it.

Ok - people with deep faith have always been outliers..

It’s definitely true for me OP. I’m Jewish in that I was raised in a Jewish family and am culturally Jewish.

I’ve never had any religious belief - from when I first went to cheder (Jewish sunday school equivalent) at the age of 8 or so I wondered why all these obviously made up stories were being told as though they were true.

For me my Judaism is all about culture, tradition, ritual, community, belonging, family, history etc. I 100% identify as Jewish and yet am not religious in the slightest. I think it was David Baddiel who used the term ‘atheist Jew’ and I very much agree with that description.

But I think my experience and sense of Jewishness is linked to Jews being a minority in the UK. I imagine if I’d been brought up in Israel for example I wouldn’t ‘identify’ as Jewish in the same way as it’s be a given or the norm, if that makes sense.

Well you told her her charitable work was fruitless - if you’re going to dish it out, you should be able to take it

yes but my issue is with any texts , humans have wrote, rewritten, chopped, edited various versions etc all to suit different times,

Look up the dead sea scrolls @SugarHorseSpooks. The text hasn't changed for thousands of years.

Excuse me?

I’m a cultural Catholic in the sense that I was baptised, confirmed, went to Mass weekly until my mid-teens, educated at Catholic schools, devout parents, thoroughly familiar with Catholic liturgy, beliefs, prayers, rituals, feast days, the colours of vestments for the different parts of the year. I’m also an atheist

This sums me up too. I surprised myself at a funeral with an in depth knowledge of Sorrowful mysteries of the rosary and Hail holy queens. I’d have thought I’d have forgotten it all. Most of my friends would be the same don’t believe in God know the prayers and rituals. I even enjoy a mass once in a while wedding/funeral usually, very peaceful.

@Patentlyuntrue You can't report people just because they disagree with you. Their assessment of you is as valid as your assessment of others not being "proper" Christians if they don't fit your narrative. You are pretty fundamental, all things being equal. Most others are pretty relaxed about cultural Christianity being as valid as Religious Christians.

You seem under-informed, and terribly black and white in your thinking. The earliest followers of Jesus weren’t ’Christians’, they saw themselves as very much a Jewish sect with apocalyptic beliefs, seeing Jesus’ death as the beginning of the end times. Only when Paul started expanding his preaching to non-Jews and saying that belief in Christ made them not need to follow the tenets of Judaism, did ‘Christianity’ begin to definitively split off from Judaism.

I've been a devout, twice-weekly church-going Christian since infancy. I've sung in the choir, volunteered at charity thrift shops, volunteered at food banks, attended and taught Bible studies, been a youth ministry volunteer, you name it, and as far as I can tell, every regular churchgoer I know deeply and profoundly knows Jesus Christ and feels His presence in their daily lives, as do I.

Yes, there are cultural Christians who only attend at Christmas and Easter, but the ones who go every week are, in my lifetime of experience, true believers.

These are your words that she was responding to

Going to church, praying, doing charitable works, reading the Bible etc. doesn't make someone a Christian. All these things are fruitless if that person doesn't love God

Apart from being not very Christian - charity being Christianity in action - if you dismiss other people’s belief systems, they will not listen to you. You were rude, they were rude back. If you are going to dish it out, you should be able to take it.

Always fun to get a post removed! I stand by what I said though 😂if I knew someone in real life speaking like this I'd think they needed psychiatric help!

It’s not even a matter of ‘validity’, it’s just a different thing. You can be thoroughly familiar with a way of life that was very formative on significant aspects of your country’s culture for millennia, to the extent that it’s part of you as a set of cultural practices, without believing in the dogma (as several posters have said about their Judaism.) I can’t remove from my own psyche, for instance, my good knowledge of large parts of the Bible, the liturgical year, or church music, and my knowledges of the lives and iconography of saints makes me a useful person to have around in art museums. But I’m not a Christian, I’m a cultural Christian.

Sorry, that wasn’t very clear. @Patentlyuntrue just seems not to have ever come across the widely-used term ‘cultural Christian’, for someone who may be atheist or agnostic but who is familiar with Christian practices because of the environment in which they grew up.

Richard Dawkins has often described himself in interviews as a cultural Christian or a cultural Anglican.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uknews/politics/7136682.stm

I suspect there have always been people for whom this was true and it certainly seems to be more common these days. I'm reminded of what St. Paul said about people in what to him would have been the future , that they would "..have a form of godliness whilst denying it's power" and also that the prominent militant atheist, Richard Dawkins has recently defined himself as a "cultural Christian".
I've lived in Ireland for years now and I would describe most Irish people as "cultural Catholics" these days in that they'll have their children Baptised, Confirmed and make their First Holy Communion in the RCC and go to Mass for funerals, weddings, Christenings and Month's Minds but appear to spare Christ little thought the rest of the time, except perhaps to take His Name in vain!
I find this sad and concerning but I'm not surprised. I can't speak for other faiths or Christian denominations but I can say from experience that truly believing in the God of the Bible and particularly, worshipping Him according to the teachings Roman Catholic Christian Faith is challenging to say the least, even in the Western secular nations of former Christendom and especially in parts of the world where Christians experience severe discrimination and even persecution! Yet the belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, has not not only survived but continues to thrive and spread, because some people do genuinely believe and that sort of Faith is very powerful and well worth the challenge, difficulties and struggle IMO! I can only pray that when I am put to the test, I will have the depth of faith that so many people who suffer oppression and persecution for their faith in Christ have shown and still do show! The Coptic Martyrs, murdered by ISIS, come to mind!
This is what I think and feel anyway, I'm more than well aware that some will disagree.

Did you keep up with the invention of a new set of Mysteries on top of the Joyful, Sorrowful, and Glorious, @MinorTom? My mother is horrified every time I am amused by the ‘Luminous Mysteries’.

I am a follower of Jesus. His power and compassion sustain me in every area of my life. I could not survive without him.