Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

@Thegreatestoftheseislove "You have not convinced me that I have any more, or less, privileges than you."

This I find baffling. We could live next door to each other and you could have access to more state funded schools than I do. Nobody would ever think that was OK for hospitals or libraries!

Exactly this

obviously you can't prove or convince someone else who's mind is made up ie, trying to understand God the theory not get to know God. (1Corinthians13 )

I think many Non Believers have repeatedly stated that their minds are NOT made up. We are curious and open minded! We would most definitely believe that God exists if he actually clearly and unequivocally communicated with us. As he is said to all knowing and all powerful, he would know that most people on earth don't believe in him - so why is he not changing that?

But: Are the Believers on this thread also open minded and curious? What would need to happen for you to change your mind about God?

People tend to bring up bishops in the House of Lords but I don’t think that’s particularly significant, so won’t dwell on that! But there ARE privileges to being religious. It’s in the way that your beliefs are protected from criticism and mockery in a way that other ideas, such as political ideas, are not. Even non-religious people buy into this.

Why do you think could have access to more state funded schools than you? Sorry, I'm not following your thoughts, here.

@Thegreatestoftheseislove You get all your religious holidays off work automatically. There is a block Christian vote in the House of Lords which is likely to vote automatically against my views.

Faith schools are state funded. People of faith have priority admission.

What would happen to stop you loving someone or alternatively believing they existed?

That was a tea-spurting moment! LOL. You truly believe that Christians are not criticised and mocked???

No, sorry, still not convinced - although I'd love, totally tongue-in-cheek, to think being a Christian meant I could have first dibs at tickets to see my favourite band, or get a discount on my telly licence, or to have a lane to myself on the motorway (ooooh, I like that idea!).

Why do you think could have access to more state funded schools than you? Sorry, I'm not following your thoughts, here.

@Thegreatestoftheseislove Because we as tax payers are paying for specific schools that give priority access to families of faith.

Around the world there are very few countries that allow schools to pick pupils based on their faith

Yea, there are taboos around mocking religious ideas that don’t exist towards other ideas. I’m talking about religious ideas generally. Would people say I can draw a picture mocking Muhammad? Would I be free to do this?

What would happen to stop you loving someone or alternatively believing they existed?

I asked you that question as I was curious about what would need to happen for you to change your view about God's existence?

And have already explained that I would change my view and accept that God exists if there was unequivocal evidence. I would then happily change my mind.

I'm not involved in schooling, so I wouldn't know about priority admission but I do know that is not a 'privilege' enjoyed by me. Are you using my taxes to educate your children? Maybe the 'privilege' isn't mine?! 😉 However, I have read reports of folk fibbing (ooooh, naughty) that they have faith to get their kids into a particular school. Thinking about it though, education is compulsory for ALL children and so why shouldn't faith schools be funded - they are 'taking' children from other types of schools and therefore reducing class sizes. Oh blimey, that really IS a whole new hot-potato topic.

And I have explained likewise

Yeah but, no but, you told me I had extra privileges over you by mere fact I am now a Christian. You need to have that new discussion with a follower of Islam.

Btw, you are free to draw a picture, or tell a story to mock Christ Jesus - at worst, and if I had the energy, I may just 'tut' and roll my eyes. I reckon Jesus would turn the other cheek. Hmmmm, pondering again, are there any secular laws to prevent you mocking another faith's prophet? I don't think there are, although we've read of the fall out against others who dare to do so.

@Thegreatestoftheseislove Sorry- you obviously don't understand how the education system works- and if you don't have children why would you? Take it from me-I am right about there being a third more state funded schools available to people of faith. There are no circumstances that make that fair.

And I have explained likewise

@1Corinthians13 So there is absolutely nothing at all that would change your mind about a God actually existing?

Errr, no I don't. I get annual leave to take 'as and when', like all my working colleagues. No automatic 'right' to get a particular day off. Anyone and everyone lawfully employed in the UK has a right to annual leave. No privilege to be seen here.

The 'block Christian vote in the House of Lords' may well also vote automatically against my views too, so that is a non sequitur.

I was talking about religious ideas generally. Yes, there are laws against mocking religion. Hate speech laws are blasphemy laws by the back door. We also have social norms around it being considered impolite and uncouth to criticise and mock religious ideas. This is a privilege religions have.

People wouldn’t draw a picture of Muhammad because they would then be a target from religious fanatics, but there would be plenty of people, including secular people, arguing that it was wrong, even hatred, to do this in the first place. (I appreciate the risk threshold is different for criticising Christianity).

This simply doesn’t exist with political ideas, say. Nobody says you are rude and offensive, and perhaps shouldn’t be saying this, if you criticise Labour or the Tories.

Faith schools are funded by the church partly & lots of parents like the values so you will need a majority who want to get rid of them like you do. Some of them probably started by the church (not sure). If you want to get rid of our traditions you can try & make it happen I guess. Make sure you shut down the toddler groups and food banks to if we dont fit your society ideals.

Hmmmm, pondering again, are there any secular laws to prevent you mocking another faith's prophet? I don't think there are,
There will be, from 1st April, if you live in Scotland.
Offences under the Hate Crime are considered “aggravated”, meaning they could lead to stiffer sentences, if they involve prejudice on the basis of age, disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity. But - note - not sex, so everyone can merrily carry on being misogynistic.

We will just have to disagree on that point - as I said ALL children have a right to compulsory education so I can't see any argument against any type of school getting state funding because all our children need teaching. Do you think that parents wanting a faith-based education for their children should pay over and above their taxes? Or parents lying to get their children into a faith-based school should pay an extra premium for being hypocritical? This needs a thread of its own.

However, back to being on-topic, your points have not convinced me I have any more privilege than you in my day to day living.

" If you want to get rid of our traditions you can try & make it happen I guess."

I am perfectly happy for you to keep your traditions. I just don't want to pay for them. You seem to fail to understand that two people can live next door to each other and the one who has faith has a potential choice of two state funded schools and the one without faith only one.

Oh, and incidentally, of the people I help run a foodbank with, most are atheists.

Scotland’s legislature is fucked full stop but that’s a different thread. A lesson against devolution I guess!

@Thegreatestoftheseislove Fair enough. I do have to say that your post displayed exactly the sort of arrogance that grinds people's gears about Christians.