Atheists and proof

[Kdtym10]

On several threads, some atheists have said they would believe in God/the Divine if they had proof. If you’re an atheist what would that proof look like to you?

"I don’t think it was in conflict - many “scientists” throughout history have also been church men. It was generally only where they challenged the scriptures that they got in trouble (or when they insulted the Pope😀)"

Oh, so that's alright then...

@HannibalHeyes following a thread and reading other's posts is not stalking. Taking an interest in people's experiences and thoughts on them is not stalking. I remember people on threads I follow. And I remember you.

@senua, big assumption. Are all atheists this reductive? I have prayed for specific things and my prayers have been granted. I do pray for God's will to be done but if my will happens to lines up with God's that doesn't negate my prayer being answered does it?

Oh dear!

Where did I say it was alright? But stating they were persecuted because they were scientists is incorrect!

if my will happens to line up with God's
Ha! I was right.

Yep. And the omnipotent being causes cancer - or allows it to develop, which, being omnipotent, he could choose not to.

Despite being omniscient, he doesn't share cures for the cancers he causes.

Friends like this, I can do without.

Would they have been disagreeing with the church if they hadn't been scientists?

Look at the title of this thread!

Something or many things happening / not happening that someone prayed for (or hoped / wished for if they are not religious) isn’t evidence of a deity.

As for ‘no evidence would be enough’: there IS no evidence!

*Yep. And the omnipotent being causes cancer - or allows it to develop, which, being omnipotent, he could choose not to.

Despite being omniscient, he doesn't share cures for the cancers he causes.

Friends like this, I can do without.*

Good points!

I know what the title of the thread is, I wrote it!

Many people disagreed with the theology of the church- most were not scientists!

Those of you who pray to God, how do you know that he has your best interest at heart?

What makes you so sure that you'd not be better off by not praying?

A group of people got together than thought i know how we can try and control the world, lets remake various texts to suit our purposes and have the masses obey

As I have mentioned several times. I have been part of other threads where atheists have been saying they are open minded and would believe if they had proof. I was merely asking what sort of proof

As I understand it, these would be agnostics. As an atheist, there wouldn’t be proof needed or possible, as I am not open minded about the existence of a God/other divine being/s.

So, as one poster put it, if a big msn with a beard stuck his head out the clouds and said “I am God” you still wouldn’t believe?

TBh I’m using the term throes people used to describe themselves and I kind of agree with you.,

I think most people who do pray have felt the difference. It’s meditation

Atheism is only a lack of belief in God.

Atheism does not require an unshakeable faith that there is no God. Though somebody with that belief is an atheist, it's an extreme position that isn't shared by all atheists (who after all, aren't unified in anything other than lacking a belief in God).

Agnosticism is really something separate, referring to the belief that humanity can't make inferences / have knowledge about God's existence at all. You could be an agnostic atheist, but many atheists aren't agnostic.

I'd describe my own position as believing that current observations about the universe do not to support the existence of God(s), ergo I don't believe in God(s). If further evidence or reason could be provided that was convincing as to the existence of God(s), then my opinion would change. This isn't a faith based position but that doesn't make me an agnostic.

"I think most people who do pray have felt the difference. It’s meditation"

Prayer and meditation are absolutely not the same thing.

The thing I'm finding difficult about this thread is the nebulous sense of an attempt to persuade me that there is no real difference between a position of religious faith and no faith. "Prayer? Oh, it's just the same as meditation." "Faith in God? Oh, just the same as believing that an MRI machine can highlight a tumour." "Believing in a supernatural realm? Oh, just the same as believing in science based discoveries."

I don't know where the discussion is going.

Sorry - I’m not trying to say that. But prayer is a meditation most of the time. The western style of meditation (often called discursive meditation) is very different to that typically practised I. The East. And is indeed often prayer like and can be a precursor to mystical experiences.

I think there is often confusion as to what meditation can be. Possibly the closest people have come across is what is termed mindfulness in modern parlance (although it’s not quite the same).

But there is definitely a difference between faith and no faith.

If someone is trying to make the point that theism, belief in God, is a rational position (relative to atheism), but they don't have any convincing reason or evidence to support the existence of God; another approach is to undermine atheism or more broadly rationalism/science as an irrational or faith-based position*

However, this approach makes onward fruitful discussion impossible essentially. You find that the other person is only willing to engage with their projection/version of your intellectual position (a straw man). They may as well do that by themselves.

*Edit: Not saying OP has done this, others on the thread have

I'd describe my own position as believing that current observations about the universe do not to support the existence of God(s), ergo I don't believe in God(s). If further evidence or reason could be provided that was convincing as to the existence of God(s), then my opinion would change

That seems to describe perfectly the view of the majority of atheists that I've come across. We take on board new information and, should any evidence of a God come to light, our opinion would change. We are open minded and curious.

I would like to see that same level of critical thinking and questioning from the Believers on this thread.

And what element of my thought do you think has not gone through a critical thinking process?

Have you ever read the works of John Locke?

Exactly like you are on a few other posts on threads then?

‘Interesting first post’, as is quite often said on here. Unless you’re a sock of course…