Why (or why not) be Christian? Part 2

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing from this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/5018897-why-or-why-not-be-christian

Anyone welcome to join. 🙂

But I think this has been done many times (both with Brexit and faith).

I guess the issue lies not in whether people can articulate them or not (as I said this has been done many times), but the perspective of the listener.

Do you agree those things are real?
Do you agree those things are a benefit?
Do you not want to believe those things are real/a benefit because it clashes with your personal belief system?

For those of us who do believe in God and have a relationship with Him through Christ Jesus, the idea of hell is not a threat because we know we will not go there.

So why does the concept of 'hell' exist in Christianity? Surely to scare people into
'behaving' ?

*I have direction, discovery and peace in my life but I don’t need to pray to an imaginary friend.

im out of this thread now, it’s getting more ridiculous and although I’ve learnt about different faiths, I’m finding it very sad how some people rely on religion and faith rather than reality.*

I'm feeling the same way. Over the past two threads I've been genuinely curious and open minded. I've asked lots of questions. I've put my views out there, hoping to engage in an intellectually stimulating debate.

However, the responses have very unsatisfactory and a little condescending. I also don't see much open mindedness about other (non religious) viewpoints.

It's funny that you say the responses are condescending while including these quotes: "I don't need to pray to an imaginary friend" and "I'm finding it very sad how some people rely on religion and faith rather than reality".

I suspect our worldviews are so different that this is seen as plainspeaking whereas as pointing out that you can't really understand the full experience of faith if you don't have it is ridiculous or condescending.

I agree the conversation has probably run its course. Wishing both you and Parker well.

Hi Garlicking,

Yes, that's definitely part of it. It's also an experience of love and communication and answered prayers.

I'm not imagining atheists floating around in a null space or anything like that, we each have our own experiences and enormous potential, as you rightly say.

Largely for the same reasons different versions of different levels of the afterlife exist in most other religions

Largely for the same reasons different versions of different levels of the afterlife exist in most other religions

And what are those reasons for having a 'hell' if not to scare people into behaving a certain way??

That's the thing, a way to get the non believers or even the believers to stand in line.

In terms of the books why get bogged down in the details when sometimes a summary of each chapter is prefered to understand the main points ?

As for the name , think of the film hackers with Joe trying to decide his identity name, yes it seems small but it's a mix to me.

In many ways yes, creativity , emotion etc that said in other ways machines are better e.g. Processing datasets, information in large amounts etc

As for the freemasonry concept , bascally to use star trek as reference , the being called Q, if those beings existed in the universe then that's what id consider to be a god being or at least like how I would expect God to be, as after all God's abilities could just be advanced science that humans mistake for magic or miracles

@Kdtym10 I'm interested in your thoughts on the reasons for having a 'hell' if not to scare people into behaving a certain way?

I think it’s too simplistic to say “to scare people”. I think it’s more to mark who is chosen and who is not. For example divisions of the afterlife are apparent in cultures where there is an element to some extent or another of predestination. It is usually a like us, not like us. The presence of a hell like realm is only really relevant to believers of that particular system, the idea is to move towards the highest realm. It’s a subtle difference but there.

I’m not sure you understand Masonic concepts.

i don’t think this answers the question.

You asked

"Do you believe humans are different to machines?"
So what is Freemasonry’s concept of a “supreme being? What does that mean to you.

the humans vs machines you asked an open ended question and an opinion type question.

The second and third question I missed the second question but gave my answer to the third question based on what it means to me.

@Kdtym10

Perfectly well aware what questions I asked. What I didn’t ask is what google thought about those things.

Seriously it's an actual human answer, especially the machine one, as I used the device called the machine from the show person of interest to explain how a machine can be better at large data sets and large amounts of data in general e.g. Mass surveillance systems can be better at patterns that some times human analysts may take longer to join the dots

and besides Google like books can shape and ingrain people's knowledge and thinking what am I ment to use a bible to explain the differences ?

I kept it short because it would take over an hour to write a proper mini essay if I'm doing it originallya And to save time I used some key words that simplify my differences in machines vs humans.

Maybe if you read some books, you would develop the art of writing comprehensible answers.

Fair points but these days who has the time when e.g. We have cliff notes etc the old version and book version of Ai

I don't know much about Freemasonry but it's interesting to hear your views. Are you quite into science fiction? "Q" sounds a bit more equivalent to a superhero or demigod, or that's how it comes across to me from your description.

I believe that God created the natural scientific laws that govern the universe, but isn't limited by them. Equally though, it wouldn't make sense if God was constantly doing things that interfered with nature. I also think nature itself is affected by the Fall (i.e. the presence of evil, not as an equal counterpart to good but as a corrupting force) - does that make sense?

Besides keywords are a good starting point for people to research the concepts further to understand another person point and perspectives without needed a full essay ? Especially if I only use the main keywords that are relevant for the question being asked. Basically Tony buzan mind maps , that's one part I was trained in.

There's an app that gives you the 'quick' version of lots of classic books. I can't remember what it's called but you might find it interesting.

I think these days a lot of people struggle with time and the attention span for a lot of the really in-depth books, which is a shame. It's worth investing the time if you can though.