Why (or why not) be Christian? Part 2

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing from this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/5018897-why-or-why-not-be-christian

Anyone welcome to join. 🙂

I don't think God gets information from humans though. He is the source of all knowledge. I believe God guides us as we discover new things, but not everything is necessarily a positive or even neutral.

true, fair points

So where do non believers get their knowledge or guidance?

I don't think God gets information from humans though. He is the source of all knowledge.

Where does this God get all this information and knowledge from?

And where do you think non Christians obtain their knowledge from?

To answer both of you, God gets knowledge from being the creator of the entire universe! And I don't know where non-believers get guidance from, a variety of places I imagine. It's for you to say, surely?

i think some humans are genetically encoded with a predisposition towards certain subjects hence why some are auto good at x subject etc

@Parker231 and @Lalupalina As a Christian, a disciple of Christ Jesus, my take on it is this: Almighty God is the Creator of all things both seen and unseen (yet, unknown). Colossians 1:16 For in Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, ... He is Alpha and Omega; He knows ALL.

Our puny human brains will never come anywhere near comprehending what He knows. However, He gave us the intelligence to learn, discover, explore, experiment, think, research, question, invent - and gave us all that we need to do these things. Essentially, there is nothing wrong with AI or Chatgpt or any inventions and discoveries - they can be a force for good, or not, depending upon the choices of the humans who use them.

Christians get their knowledge of the science of this world and how it works, the same as anyone and everyone. Anyone and everyone get their knowledge of the science of this world the same as Christians. No difference.

Specifically the question you have both asked: Believers get their knowledge of God and the spiritual realm from having a relationship with Christ, the Living God and with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. I do not know from where else unbelievers get their knowledge or guidance. You are perhaps best placed to answer your own question?

Yes, I think that's probably true. Nature vs nurture is quite fascinating, as someone who is adopted I definitely have a very different set of genetic traits to my adoptive family. But I believe we all have particular gifts or talents. For me, it's when I work 'with' God and rely on Him (rather than resisting or ignoring) any gifts I have really come to life in a whole different way. Just need to get better at doing that...

(Sorry, reply was to BioHive)

Seems that some have to rely on god for their knowledge, the rest of us don’t have to and rely on our own strengths and abilities.

How are your gifts different if you resist or ignore?

It's a personal thing really. God just has a way of transforming things.

I don’t get it - how does this compliance enhance things?

I don't understand this either. How are your skills enhanced by 'working with' a god?

Tbh it is just an organic thing that happens as part of relationship with God. Not everything can be explained if you don't have faith yourself. Sorry. And I didn't use the term 'compliance', either, I wouldn't characterise being in relationship with God in that way.

Or 'enhanced skills' for that matter. It's not a corporate training technique!

I guess I’ll never get it when no one can explain the positives - similar to no one being able to explain the benefits of Brexit! Supporters tell you there are some but can’t articulate them.

There is compliance isn’t there - aren’t you meant to worship, do as he says or you’ll go to hell?

It's not like Brexit, no. As I've said, it's personal. Your answers are repeatedly saying that faith means nothing to you and you don't see the point etc. So it's hardly surprising that you're not privy to the reality I'm talking about. It's not a spectator sport, I'm simply saying how it is for me and many people of faith.

And I don't have the kind of beliefs you describe either (compliance or hell). I've made that clear over multiple threads so if you'de addressing me specifically, please drop the strawman stuff.

@Parker231 There is compliance isn't there - aren't you meant to worship, do as he says or you'll go to hell?

If that were true, it would be a coercive and controlling relationship and not at all loving. I know that's the picture that some folk like to paint, but they are wrong. It's like looking at any personal relationship from the outside - unless you're in it, nobody else knows nor understands the dynamics. I don't love Him because he threatens me, I love Him because, to me, He is love. I worship Him because I am in awe, and acknowledge His mightiness. If anyone does not recognise who He is, then of course they won't understand the desire to worship.

People worship others in the secular world. It's not on a par, but some folk worship Harry Styles, for example. I don't get it myself. I don't want to get it.

At the risk of repeating what has already been said 'hell' is not a threat if you do not believe it exists. How can 'somebody' who doesn't exist, threaten anyone with something else that doesn't exist. It's nonsense. For those of us who do believe in God and have a relationship with Him through Christ Jesus, the idea of hell is not a threat because we know we will not go there. If anyone ends up in hell then they can't go wailing and moaning that they were not given fair and prior warning and a lifetime to do something about it.

Keeping a wide-open mind on this, are you talking about the kind of 'inspired' thinking or doing that we secular people call flow? The thing that happens when you're in the zone, working swiftly and almost automatically?

It's a wondrous feeling. It comes with practice, plenty of it. It can sometimes be helped by visualisations or meditative practices.

I do keep meaning to say that, as far as I'm aware, meditation and related protocols are prayers for atheists. It's more than possible to access one's inner being, to feel enhanced connection with the world/universe, to achieve direction, discovery and peace, etc, without attributing any of it to external forces.

I'm not expecting any faith follower to go "Oh, right! I won't bother God any more!" I am asking you to accept that these things are readily available to non-believers as well. Some of you seem to imagine us all floating round in a sort of null space, devoid of what you might call soulful experience. Not so. Humans are gloriously multifaceted, full of depth, talent and inspiration which each of us realises in our unique way.

And what is “one’s inner being?” Why is meditation a “prayer for atheists”? It’s been used as a why to connect to the divine for thousands of years. So it’s atheists adopting a religious practice. What do you think meditation is?

What is flow. What is happening there?

What proof have you that the divine is not included in any of the things you measures?

So what is Freemasonry’s concept of a “supreme being? What does that mean to you.

AI is a terrible research tool for anything qualitative (as generally is Wikipedia. I have a genuine question - how many of those books have you actually read?

Do you think it’s going to make a difference whether you stick a 1 at the end of your user name?

I have direction, discovery and peace in my life but I don’t need to pray to an imaginary friend.

im out of this thread now, it’s getting more ridiculous and although I’ve learnt about different faiths, I’m finding it very sad how some people rely on religion and faith rather than reality.

Do you believe humans are different to machines?