Why (or why not) be Christian? Part 2

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing from this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/philosophy_religion_spirituality/5018897-why-or-why-not-be-christian

Anyone welcome to join. 🙂

I have hopes and plans but faith doesn’t play any part of it - nothing hopeless about a happy life with the constraints of any faith.

@Parker231,

The primary OED definition of faith is

"noun
1 1. 
complete trust or confidence in someone or something."this restores one's faith in politicians""

This before religious faith. So it is possible to have non religious faith.

I've always thought that was a bloody stupid statement, @heyhohello, especially considering how much time he spent around fishermen. Of course thou knowest whence the wind cometh and whither it goeth! If not, thou wouldst spend thy life being blown around the Sea of Galilee like unto a helium balloon, which hath yet to be invented.

@Parker231 so you trust no one or nothing, not even yourself?

@Garlicking,

I've always thought that was a bloody stupid statement, @heyhohello, especially considering how much time he spent around fishermen. Of course thou knowest whence the wind cometh and whither it goeth! If not, thou wouldst spend thy life being blown around the Sea of Galilee like unto a helium balloon, which hath yet to be invented.

well maybe Spirit is more discernible than I suggested...😉

Sounds like you don’t appreciate parts of Jung’s work I (together with many I know) consider fundamental to understanding his work.

Understanding doesn't equal appreciation.

But, no, I don't. He was a product of a time and place that set enormous store by spiritualist concepts (and religious ones).

If science starts with a hypothesis why doesn’t it start with the hypothesis that there is a spiritual world and until it is disproven it must exist.

You must be joking??!

So I suggest that I own an invisible unicorn that only I can see, you cannot 100% disprove it. So it must be true ?!

Whereas for me spirit and science are all around. We see the world very differently

I WANT AN INVISIBLE UNICORN!!!

Oh, hang on, does its invisible shit smell?

But surely that’s the methodology which was just described as how science works?

So what you’re saying is science should start with the hypothesis something isn’t true until it’s proven?

@Kdtym10 all the best questions are open; they start with How, What, Why, When, Where or Who. Surely you learned that in school.

Oh I’m a big fan of open questions. But I also learned at school that hypothesis start with a statement to be tested. In the unicorns case

Invisible Unicorns are real. They generally have to be falsifiable. So it’s usually better to start with the assumption is real then prove it is.

@Garlicking which I have been answering throughout these threads with reference to my Christian beliefs/The Bible. What those questions give you however is qualitative answers rather than quantitative, measurable ones, repeatable ones.

Which is exactly what we’ve both been saying - William Blake must be turning in his grave lol

I have been answering throughout these threads with reference to my Christian beliefs/The Bible. What those questions give you however is qualitative answers rather than quantitative, measurable ones, repeatable ones.

No, all your answers refer to thoughts in your own head. It is simply down to your thoughts and beliefs.

And experiences. I’m pretty sure this is what was just said - qualitative not quantitative

But I also learned at school that hypothesis start with a statement to be tested

Christians created the God hypothesis. So surely the burden of proof is on them? Has it been thoroughly tested??

And experiences. I’m pretty sure this is what was just said - qualitative not quantitative

But experiences are subjective feelings within a person. They are triggered in your mind.

Well if you’ve been following along most Christians don’t believe in testing spiritual things scientifically so no, the burden of proof is not no them. If scientists want to prove one way or the other then they must carry the burden of proof whatever hypothesis they chose to use.

But as it is, Christians used the same God as the Jews so it predates Christianity, so with your hypothesis- yes it is false as a matter of verifiable history.

But experiences are subjective feelings within a person. They are triggered in your mind.

@Lalupalina, they are an internal response to external stimuli. Qualitative.

Hence people will sell 'Experiences"...

Yes they are internal. Spirit is within. I differ from you (I’m guessing) on the existence of soul and spirit along with the physical body of a person.

Much of what we experience is internal, it is not of the 5 senses.

... a mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge. Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness.

“A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies, said Jojen. The man who never reads lives only one.”

I like these quote from the Game of Thrones series. 🙂

No, you're mixing up experiences like a hot air balloon ride with experiences that are created entirely in your mind