Why (or why not) be Christian?

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing the "Will you make it to heaven?" threads started by @VincitVeritas which have become a more wide-ranging discussion about matters of faith, Christian belief.

Hope to see you on here when the last thread runs out of space! And new posters welcome too.

We've recently been discussing the evidence for God, the soul and life after death, and debating what constitutes reliable evidence in this context.

Also some talk about whether it's accurate to say humans are 'sinful' and why/why not, some discussion of Paul and the validity of his writings and status as an apostle, how the Bible was formed (and why other writings didn't make the canon) the basis of morality/ethics, whether Jesus's message was intended for an excusively Jewish audience, the meaning of Christ (or Messiah), church tradition and different denominations, end times and probably more I've forgotten!

@professorcunning,

why do you need faith if he has revealed himself to you?

Because we want to know Him better/more fully. There is still much we don't know of Him. We need faith for what we don't know (yet). We get glimpses which fuel our faith.

I think it's an interplay between faith and coming to know God through the experience of your faith. It's not either/or. Some people have a 'road to Damascus', but most are more of a mix.

Why is it hypocritical? People are just sharing their experiences.

Most of the historical critiques I've seen on this thread have been pretty spurious IMO. We can see from the earliest writings (Paul) that there was already a widespread church movement and that the early Apostles absolutely believed that having witnessed Jesus die, He returned to life, spent time with them, ate with them etc. We also know this would not be in any way a typical response to a leader/rabbi being put to death in quite a shameful way.

Unfortunately, Christianity is very far from the first religion to have a resurrection theme, so, yes, it would be very typical of a religion that seems to be copied from many previous ones.

I think this is a misunderstanding. It’s easily done when we are encouraged to see the world through a scientific lens. The ideas of “proof” and especially “ fact”, just aren’t relevant when you’re discussing spiritual experience.

For me, to a large extent, faith/belief are the spiritual equivalent to those scientific terms of proof and fact.

it’s just a matter of applying the right terminology and looking through the relevant lens.

@RealRubyBee In response to your last post, there's a constant dialogue with matters of faith. I believe the Holy Spirit helps us to deepen our understanding and see where Biblical teachings are taking us. But there will always be more conservative elements (which is not a bad thing IMO, we need a balance), disagreements, and unfortunately people who hijack religious texts and use religious institutions for their own ends.

I think it goes without saying that Christianity and Judaism before does indeed borrow from many other religions and philosophies - it’s very easy to read most of the NT from a Platonism perspective. Of course most famously the story of Noah is almost a direct lift of the Epic of Gilgamesh.

My feelings about Paul are well rehearsed on this thread.

But I don’t think it takes away from Christianity- I’m more in favour of a perineal philosophy and I find the Christian narrative the easiest to express this in as it’s so well established in Western Culture.

thats fair points too, its just frustrating in wanting to know if there is an actuall being that we know as god, vs all the methods humans have used to alter, rewrite texts etc so its then a needle in a haystack trying to learn the truth

@RealRubyBee getting to know God is more than an academic study. Christians engage with God through prayer and worship and the Sacraments. It's an experiential faith.

for me i consider god like a being like Q from star trek or one of the anicents from the stargate universe etc, through prayer and worship is based on human constructs and ideas, therefore subject to bias and personal interpretation, where as a living being stood infront of me doing basically omg things then id say thats god or at least a god

What would happen if all the bibles that exist were destroyed in a fire or a flood?

There would be no more evidence of God, would there?

exactly we give power to the idea of god, but basically we have not a clue for certain as to weather we are right or just guessing at different parts of an elephant so to speak

@RealRubyBee prayer and worship moves beyond usual human communication. It is beyond human constructs. It can be silent or sung. It can be still of full of movement. It can involve all the senses and more, as that intuition that is beyond the conscious mind breaks through into deep felt conviction.

This is another question that nobody has answered, why do you need faith if he has revealed himself to you? At that point you no longer have faith, you have proof/fact.

I'd also be interested in this. Those of you who have 'met' God, you must regard his existence as a fact. You know he exists, so you should no longer need faith.

@Lalupalina & @RealRubyBee,

What would happen if all the bibles that exist were destroyed in a fire or a flood?

There would be people, oral traditions and practices.

which i can understand but then its still within the limits of the human mind and understanding as to weather we actually believe its god we are in comms with, its like a fish in a fish bowl it only understands its surroundings based on what the fish knows, so how can we truly say we are in prayer with god if the whole concept of prayer was created by humans themselves

its like assuming aliens can understand radio waves just because we can, its only an assumption and human belief

But what if all (well most) people were also killed in a natural disaster?

Would our descendants also believe in a 'God'??

You know he exists, so you should no longer need faith.

@Lalupalina, we need faith in order to have hope we can be in unity with Him. Faith that He can lead us. Faith that we understand His message correctly.

we can only presume to understand, until god itself confirms his message after that its all faith based and hoping that its not just alot of human philosophy that we have belief in

@RealRubyBee I believe God created prayer. I believe God created us. So as for human constructs the only ones that are not of God's making are ones which are utilised in rebellion against Him.

fair points but if god made humans then humans made harry potter stories, lord of the rings stories basically even if god made humans then it made a lot of very good story tellers

Why would God create prayer? Why does he want to be worshipped so much by us humans in your opinion?

we can only presume to understand, until god itself confirms his message after that its all faith based and hoping that its not just alot of human philosophy that we have belief in

@RealRubyBee, hence the importance of faith. But we have glimpses.

"12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

Why are you trusting the Bible as a source of truth?

when god can create a bag of cash with over £250,000 gbp then id consider myself a believer (i know thats omg way of thinking about god but i got bills to pay)

@Lalupalina,

Why does he want to be worshipped so much by us humans in your opinion?

Worship is about acknowledging God, it's an appreciation of Him. It's recognition that He is God. And we're not. It's the correct response to His eternal being Who has infinite knowledge, love and mercy.