Why (or why not) be Christian?

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing the "Will you make it to heaven?" threads started by @VincitVeritas which have become a more wide-ranging discussion about matters of faith, Christian belief.

Hope to see you on here when the last thread runs out of space! And new posters welcome too.

We've recently been discussing the evidence for God, the soul and life after death, and debating what constitutes reliable evidence in this context.

Also some talk about whether it's accurate to say humans are 'sinful' and why/why not, some discussion of Paul and the validity of his writings and status as an apostle, how the Bible was formed (and why other writings didn't make the canon) the basis of morality/ethics, whether Jesus's message was intended for an excusively Jewish audience, the meaning of Christ (or Messiah), church tradition and different denominations, end times and probably more I've forgotten!

So either they were lying or my DC overcame the 'developmental delays' and the 'severe and complex needs' I was officially told they had on school entry.

As I said previously, the statistical odds/peoples expectations have not always been great for me and my loved ones.

The ability to detach yourself from knowledge is important when finding self. Basing your own existence on rules created by others just denies your own innate spirituality. Understanding the world as you see it, doesn't reveal what it is, as others see it. This is why confusion reigns with organized religion. True faith is internal.

How do you detach yourself from knowledge @Jason118? Do you somehow manage to forget it? What about the knowledge which is subconscious?

NOT standard at all. They are for you, in the country and community/Church you live in. Not standard at all for other Christian denominations, and in other parts of the world. And I am pretty sure that even in your Church and your denomination, there are many who say and repeat the words, but do NOT believe in them literally.

Christians come in so so many denominations and guises, shapes and sizes- and even same denomination, be it Catholic or CofE/Episcopal, interpret the Bible in very many different ways.

It's accepted by the majority of Christian churches worldwide. I think that counts as pretty standard. What's your problem?

No it isn't, that is 'my problem'. True Protestant Churches, for instance, do not accept the 'Communion of Saints'. And many do not believe the word of the Bible literally. And even within Catholics or CofE, Episcopalian, huge varieties between countries, African Churches being extremely traditional.

BTW, are Mormons, Plimouth Brethren, Jehovah's witnesses, etc, Christians? What about Quakers?

You may not think that you do. Perhaps you don't as an individual. But many of the Laws about womens' rights, abortion, and currently Assisted Dying- are very much influenced by the religious lobbies.

You may not think that you do. Perhaps you don't as an individual. But many of the Laws about womens' rights, abortion, and currently Assisted Dying- are very much influenced by the religious lobbies.

@fleurneige, as they are influenced by people of other religions and no religion. Anyone can be a lobbyist. Because someone is religious should they be barred from lobbying? I'm not a lobbyist, personally, though.

@heyhohello it's naive to think that the laws on equal marriage, assisted dying, abortion and other issues mainly affecting women are not disproportionately targeted by the religious. That is fact. Sure, there are atheist and members of other religions among the people lobbying, but they are predominantly Christians of the hardcore Catholic and Evangelical kind and they are terrifying in the amount of influence they are building up.

In the past 2 years we have seen more women reported and prosecuted in the UK for abortion related offences than in the preceding 55 years put together. That is a concerning development and religious folk need to take a long hard look at themselves over it.

Basically, feel free to have whatever religion you want - but keep it out of the lives of others. You can evangelise if you want, but hands off the law.

@pointythings you've a short memory! You know my views on abortion, we spoke about this on the thread proceeding this one! You agreed with me.

@pointythings

And my views concord with my Christian beliefs! Stop generalising about Christians. So I have views you agree with, they are also from a Christian perspective. Would you prevent me from lobbying politically? Or is it only the people you disagree with?

You can lobby all you want, I wasn't talking about you at all! I'm fully aware that Christians are a diverse group.

At the same time, people who lobby for abortion bans lobby for women to die, and I will judge them.

@pointythings

You can lobby all you want, I wasn't talking about you at all! I'm fully aware that Christians are a diverse group.

Thank you for acknowledging that. Much appreciated. It is an important point which I think sometimes gets forgotten.

I think there are so many ways to see God/gods/ the Divine /source/All/ whatever you call the higher power.,

Attributing human characteristics is often the default esp by atheists as this is the easiest thing to pull apart.

The idea of certain occurrences on Earth being good/evil/joyus or suffering is generally seen from the perspective of the individuals(s) affected.

If you looked at it from a perspective that recognises neither joy nor pain Good or Evil - but a desire to experience everything then asking why God allows something os pointless. Why do some prayers work, others don’t. Well does it align with the overall plan?

I was replying to the person saying they do not try to change Laws or letting religion influence them.

@pointythings apologies, I did not mean you are angry as such, just that (my bad) I read your post and could imagine you giving God what for when the time comes. Purely all lighthearted. You certainly don't sound an angry person in your posts. 🙂

@fleurneige you quoted me in your earlier post. I'm not a lobbyist. But I've a right to lobby as much as any other person in this country. I am a Christian.

I do find Brian Cox very engaging and watchable. He makes the complicated very easy to follow and understand.

That's fine. Thanks for your views.

What a bizarre reply. I was asking questions, not giving my 'views'.

Because you're just badgering me, I haven't said a word against any Christian denominations and I'm not particularly interested in whatever axe you're trying to grind here. I simply stated my mainstream Christian beliefs, if you don't like it that's not my problem.

Weird. Lots of Christians on here taking general questions or views on general Christianity, or even religion, as personal attacks.

I don't think this defensiveness reflects very well.

Badgering you? How. Just pointing out that the title of the thread makes little sense, when Christians and their beliefs come in so so so many variations. And that they do try, and often succeed, in influencing laws and society.

What would reflect well, regarding Christianity, with you?

Wow! That's one way to take it!

And, just to advise you, that's not it!