Trying to be a Christian... any tips?

[HeroicMinute]

I've just started listening to the Hallowed app. The first thing I've come across is a Routines course, which is great for me as I am horrendous time waster, which probably explains why I haven't spiritually evolved.
I was raised loosely Christian and attended the village church as a child. I think I want to replicate this traditional experience, but with some slightly more intellectual content.
I've been thinking about Christianity for a few years, and have tried a few different churches, but nothing's stuck.
My reasons for not sticking at a church:
-I can't handle a church band, it all seems very nice and worshipful but it makes me cringe a bit. I love a choir.
-I am very opposed to modern identity politics and didn't go back when a vicar started talking about structural racism in the church.
-I stopped going to an evangelical church because the curate was sweet and excited about his Christianity but did lengthy sermons suitable for children with no analysis or intellectual stimulation.
-found a curate at another church a bit creepy.
-found the sermon in a big popular church on 8th October to be a bit antisemitic.

You get the picture; I'm a bit of a PITA and I'm obviously putting up barriers. Don't get me wrong; I'm not a particularly intellectual person but I am curious and I sincerely want to be a Christian. I don't yet believe properly, sometimes I do, well I suppose I usually do, but with varying levels of conviction.
Any tips would be very gratefully received.
Thank you in advance.

Of course

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_at_Antioch

In what way have you offered up your vulnerability and I have “taken advantage of it for my own gains” why did you offer up your own vulnerability- usually with a sacrifice you expect something in return that is the agreed outcome, why do you think there would be a cause (you unilaterally deciding to be vulnerable) and me behaving how you hope for me to behave? Why do you suppose to be able to set the tone? Surely you’re the one looking for gain in that situation?

@Kdtym10, I was thinking in regards to Paul showing his vulnerability through his writings.

And maybe in terms of people on here laying bare what they believe in faith for you to analyse and criticise but you not being very open concerning what you believe in with regard to your occult practices.

And the gain? A more shared understanding.

I'm late to the thread so please bear with me! I will take your points one by one @HeroicMinute. I grew up from 10-16 in a Christian household with a pastor as a step-grandparent. Full disclosure, I am now a Buddhist after 20+ years as an atheist.

1. The church band. You seem to have this aversion to it but I am unsure why. What about it makes you "cringe"? It sounds like you are judgemental of the people involved, their sincerity etc. Rather than dismissing them, maybe look at yourself and whether your approach to it is telling you something.
2. So you can't hear other people's views? You don't have to agree with the idea of structural racism, you can simply hear it for what it is (an idea). It sounds like your ego is getting in the way; that you cling to your beliefs and any suggestion that there are other views is intolerable. That isn't very Christian IMO.
3. You have to do the work outside of church - not just expect the priest/curate etc to spoon feed you. That means reading, researching, working it out, bible study etc. This isn't a simple case of attend and you get told what to do.
4. "Creepy" meaning? Again this is your projection onto others.
5. See number 2. You don't have to agree.

It seems like you make excuses in your mind for why it doesn't fit right with you. The fact is, all of the work being a Christian comes from the one doing the Christian-ing. Amending your own behaviour accordingly rather than demanding others do differently.

Not trying to convert you but Buddhism may be a better fit for you. It is very intellectualised, doesn't demand you "believe" anything, is exceptionally practical and you can self-direct or attend a group that meets for weekly talks/meditations/reflections. Buddha essentially says "don't trust me. Try it and work it out for yourself!" which I find brilliant!

Good luck!

But I never made a bargain that if people laid their beliefs open I would be open with mine. I know that, because they are occult for a reason. It’s up to people if they want to lay bare their beliefs but it’s not a bargaining chip

But I never made a bargain that if people laid their beliefs open I would be open with mine. I know that, because they are occult for a reason. It’s up to people if they want to lay bare their beliefs but it’s not a bargaining chip

@Kdtym10, no it's not and I didn't intend it as a bargain. I can simply hope that they are received kindly. However it always a risk that they are not and I accept that.

@Kdtym10 but my hope is not a requirement simply a hope.

@Kdtym10 sorry, I don't think I made myself very clear there. I hoped you would be kind and gentle concerning people laying bare their beliefs to you. That doesn't mean that there is an expectation you reciprocate and lay bare your beliefs.

However, if you criticise their beliefs I think it is unkind not to offer up your own for similar scrutiny. That's where the power imbalance lies. You are appointing yourself as judge and jury with no accountability.
Which doesn't sit right with me.

But, as I say, no bargain was made beforehand. I fully accept there is a risk each time I share something.

@Kdtym10

Talking on themes of severity, mercy and sacrifice, what is your take on this?

"10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Matthew 9: 10-12 NIV)

Ah, you consider Paul loving Peter enough to draw his attention to his error (in the spirit of Galatians 6:1) to be evidence of “quite some opposition” from Peter, James and John to Paul.

The biblical evidence for this hypothesis is lacking

Paul first met Peter and James (and none of the other apostles) in Jerusalem only 3 years after his Damascene conversion. He spent two weeks with Peter and there is nothing in the text to suggest any opposition from any apostle towards Paul.

Some 11 or 14 years later they were together at the Jerusalem Council. Again nothing in the text suggests any opposition from any apostle towards Paul.

Paul recounts “and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.” Again no evidence of any opposition from any apostle towards Paul.

In fact, Peter, exemplifying the Christian humility of which he wrote at length, went on to endorse the writings of Paul (who he referred to as “our beloved brother Paul”) as having the same status as “ the rest of the Scriptures “. Hardly the behaviour of someone opposing Paul’s ministry.

Perhaps the words of Peter on the subject of Paul’s writings will be helpful-
“as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.”
2 Peter 3: 15b-16

@eyestosee one must be aware that our pearls may not be well received by everyone.

@LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms yes, although I live in hope.

Our Lord has given us clear teaching on this. I’ve learned through painful experience myself, to heed it. xx

@LeaningOnTheEverlastingArms, thanks.

Jesus Christ, at least Paul regained his sight after 3 days. It is well understood amongst most biblical scholars that there were strong differences between Peter (and the apostles who actually knew Jesus) and Paul (who never met Jesus) most particularly regarding whether Followers of Jesus were to follow Jewish laws and customs. Peter et al were strongly of the opinion they did, Paul, eager to spread his cult thought Gentiles could follow Jesus without abiding by Jewish laws and customs. Have you ever actually read any books about Paul?

Paul b ring loving enough to draw Peter’s attention to Peter’s error. You mean the late comer cult leader telling the guy Jesus said was the rock on which his church would be built is wrong! Do you realise how ridiculous this sounds? But you cling to whatever makes you comfortable. What other takes on history do you have Henry VIII gently and lovingly drew Anne Bolleyns attention to the need to have a living male heir by chopping off her head.?

Pity those pearls are factory made plastic copies of the real thing, cheap, mass produced, shiny land fill.

Ok, let me settle this once and for all, my occult beliefs are occult. They will be never offered up to any one to comment on. I have taken a vow of secrecy over them. It’s unkind to keep pressuring me to do so and deep down you know it is purely to satisfy your own ego and need to retaliate because there is no other reason to keep commenting on those point. If others offer there’s up on a discussion forum where it is clear there will be comments made then that’s down to them. If therm don’t want people to comment they should keep quiet. It’s very simple.

@Kdtym10

Ok, let me settle this once and for all, my occult beliefs are occult. They will be never offered up to any one to comment on. I have taken a vow of secrecy over them. It’s unkind to keep pressuring me to do so and deep down you know it is purely to satisfy your own ego and need to retaliate because there is no other reason to keep commenting on those point. If others offer there’s up on a discussion forum where it is clear there will be comments made then that’s down to them. If therm don’t want people to comment they should keep quiet. It’s very simple.

sorry, no pressure. I simply hoped you would refrain from the harshness in some of your comments. Mercy, not sacrifice.

But there is no requirement on my behalf.

It’s a shame if you confuse erudite challenge with harshness. Maybe you do so because you have unrealistic expectations

@Kdtym10

It’s a shame if you confuse erudite challenge with harshness

I'm not sure I would meet your entry requirements for 'erudite challenge'.

I'll get my coat...

It’s a shame the discussion moved on to discussions about my personality, I guess if you don’t want to discuss the actual points anymore, I hope you have a good evening

It’s a shame the discussion moved on to discussions about my personality,

@Kdtym10, was just trying to reach out and be friendly. Try to understand where you were coming from better. Since I am very aware of the potential for miscommunication. No malice intended.

I hope you have a good evening

You too.

You are seriously in error if you cannot accept the Biblical record, compiled by Luke, of the interactions between Peter, the other apostles and Paul.

Paul did meet Jesus and conversed with Him (Acts 9:4-6) was personally taught by Him (Galatians 1:12) and had His ministry endorsed by Him (Acts 18:9-10, Acts 22: 17-21). To say He “never met” Jesus is to ignore the Biblical evidence and the fact that Peter, James and John recognised that the grace of Christ was on Paul (Galatians 2:9) and that they accepted him, as I previously showed.

Peter had already been given a vision from the Lord which preceded his visit to the household of Cornelius, a Gentile, who was converted through Peter’s message, by faith without adherence to the Law.

To say Peter was strongly of the opinion that Gentiles had to keep the Law is ridiculous.

Peter is the man who said at the Jerusalem Council-
“Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”
Acts 15 : 7-11

These aren’t the words of a man demanding that the Gentiles keep the Law of Moses!

Christ did not say He would build His church on Peter (Πέτρος : petros : a rock or a stone) but on the rock (πέτρα : petra : a crag, large rock,) of his confession as to who Christ is.
(See the reference in Matthew 7:24 to the wise man building his house on the πέτρα : petra of Christ’s word)

“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock”

Paul was no “cult leader”. He was an accepted, beloved brother of the apostles, whose writings were acknowledged by Peter as having the status of the rest of the Scriptures and who the Holy Spirit saw fit to inspire much of the New Testament scriptures.

Peter was wrong to slip back into the practice of the Judaisers. He had the humility and meekness to receive the correction without holding onto any bitterness against his “beloved brother” Paul for correcting him.

Now I must finally say that for someone to purport to have been educated by scholars to indulge in a rant of ad hominems, and particularly to use the holy name of my God and Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ as a swear word in your opening remark really exposes your moral bankruptcy as a serious debater on this forum.

You have conducted yourself shamefully and without any respect for those debating with you. I’m embarrassed for you.

I’m actually concerned for you at this point so I will keep this short

1. it is well established that Luke was a faithful friend and pupil of Paul. His position regarding Paul needs to viewed very very cautiously at best.
2. Pauls conversion fell after the death of Jesus and he did never meet Jesus.,His claims that Jesus spoke with him from the beyond should equally be not seen as him meeting Jesus. He heard a voice that Paul said identified itself as Jesus.,we doubt know whether this was true or whether the voice he heard was Jesus or a demon do we?
3. Even Paul talked of his disagreements with Peter.(Galatians 2:11)
4. Remember history is written by the victors Paul was a Roman Citizen, he stated that Gentiles could be followers of Jesus without practicing Jewish beliefs and customs. This fitted in much better to the later Romans who saw Christianity as a useful mechanism to unify a vast disparate Empire., Numerous gospels circulated in the years following Jesus’s death, Paul just happened to be most useful to the people in power. Of the people and writings we know about amongst early Christian’s there’s probably many more that were lost or ideas never committed to written form.

You might find This summary of some of the differences between Paul and Peter useful

Do you have a vicar/priest/teacher (preferably not someone unbalanced tv evangelist type) you can discuss this with - because I think you might find that helpful.