Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

@heyhohello it's great to hear that you and your daughter are doing so well! You seem to be a lovely and positive person who takes care of your health by running every day and you have a positive outlook on life - that's fantastic!

However, attributing all this to a god rather than to your own positive attitude and actions mystifies me.

As an egregore he cannot exist without praise and worship.

However, attributing all this to a god rather than to your own positive attitude and actions mystifies me.

@redlavender, thank you for your kind words. But really, I'm nothing special- a pretty ordinary person really. I cannot say any of my successes were purely down to my hard work. My Christian faith is a big part of me. If you accept me you just have to accept that part of me too. It is part of the package. It's ok to be mystified, too, though. Life would not be the same without any mysteries. 🙂

Doesn’t explain why god needs to be worshipped? Usually you think positively of people who do good things but what good does a god do?

Am quite liking the idea of being classed as a sinner - sounds much more interesting than the opposite!

Your posts are lovely to read @heyhohello. Thank you for sharing some positivity on the thread!

@Mustardseed86, you're very welcome. Pleased you enjoyed reading them & I appreciate your kind comments. 🙂

An egregore is a thought form. It only exists because people believe it exists and it continues because it is regularly fed by worship and prayer.

They only have the power that is ascribed to them by the devotees who keep them going. They have no power of their own, so YHWH is actually unable to intervene to prevent wars and suffering. The only ones who can do that are human and if they do so because of a belief in YHWH then that is the limit of his powers.

In the future when humankind has moved on from the current religions he will have as much influence as the old forgotten gods of prehistory.

They only have the power that is ascribed to them by the devotees who keep them going. They have no power of their own, so YHWH is actually unable to intervene to prevent wars and suffering. The only ones who can do that are human and if they do so because of a belief in YHWH then that is the limit of his powers.

@Elphame, there is some irony to this. The God I believe in is an interventional God. As such He works in me, manifests in me and through me (& others who believe the same). And as such no other person can really comment on the limits of my belief - my belief belongs to me.

Had to google ‘interventional god’ - found this ‘ There are also Christians who believe that God is an interventionist God – basically meaning he is still active and changing things in the world.’

More confusion - what is he changing? He doesn’t seem to be doing anything positive - not improving the living conditions in Gaza or the weather in Queensland?

More confusion - what is he changing?

@Parker231, on a personal level, from personal experience, He is changing me. I would have found going through some of the experiences I have had in my life very difficult without the hope my faith in God has given me (see my previous posts). I have had prayers answered immediately, when I have needed help and people have come to my aid. I have prayed for things which were against the odds to happen and they have. I have had dreams where Christ has appeared to me / spoken to me which has helped me make important decisions. My faith is active and has been a pretty powerful part of my life.

People who believe in God don't assume He's going to intervene in every situation to rescue people from the consequences of their actions. We also don't believe we're living in a perfect world where humans don't do bad things to each other.

Apologies, I meant to quote the previous post.

I don't assume @Mustardseed86 but if what I ask is His will He will grant my request.

I pray this frequently:

My adorable Jesus,
May our feet journey together.
May our hands gather in unity.
May our hearts beat in unison.
May our souls be in harmony.
May our thoughts be as one.
May our ears listen to the silence together.
May our glances profoundly penetrate each other.
May our lips pray together to gain mercy from the Eternal Father.

So I do have reason to hope my will (increasingly) lines up with God's.

Sorry @heyhohello - I didn't mean to quote your post. I also experience God answering my prayers and at times communicating with me to let me know I'm going in the wrong direction! We know He is there. There are so many wonderful ways to discover this truth, but people try to judge from the outside, which will never be fruitful.

I love your prayer. I'm going to pray this tonight.

@Mustardseed86 it's lovely to hear that. Lovely also you are praying the prayer I posted. 🙂 It's from this site:

novenaprayer.com/2022/08/02/the-unity-prayer/

Thank you! I will have a look at that too 😊

What are your thoughts on why your prayers were answered but not those living in refugee camps or war zones? Why doesn’t he help them - are they not more deserving?

What are your thoughts on why your prayers were answered but not those living in refugee camps or war zones? Why doesn’t he help them - are they not more deserving?

@Parker231, I don't know the individuals or their lives well enough to comment in detail. However there are no promises that people won't suffer at the hands of other people, as Christ Himself suffered.

Regarding 'deserving' this concept is problematic. Prayers are granted according to God's will which we (Christians) believe by faith. We don't earn any sort of 'right to prayers granted' by doing good works etc.

@Parker231 since I believe we have been given free will, I view prayer as a continual affirmation that a person wants God to do His will, work His power, in their lives. Hence they are giving their will over to God. It's not a wish fulfilment activity. However, since I believe God is good and trust Him, I believe having His power operate in my life transforms it and me in a good way.

However, people still have free will. They can choose not to let God work in their life. They can choose actions which are destructive to themselves and others if they want. Which causes suffering.

Examples of things I have asked for in prayer:

Dear God, please put your desires upon my heart. Let me want your will, think according to your will, do your will, speak your will, have hope and aspirations and vision according to your will, believe according to your will. Let me utilise the faith you have given me according to your will. Let your healing manifest in me and through me according to your will. Let me be altogether healthy and function healthily according to your will. In Jesus' name.

Well, you don't know what relationship individual people have with God and how He guides them and helps them. You can't just lump every single refugee together as an example of God not answering prayer. Maybe you should try to find some testimonies from Christian refugees to find out about this?

I'll explain again, as Christians we absolutely understand that suffering is part of life. God doesn't continually intervene to suspend the laws of nature or stop things unfolding according to the path they are on. We don't live in a low stakes world where we can use God like a magic wand, that is not the reality or purpose of our lives. We have a lot more responsibility and freedom than that. Do miraculous things happen? Yes, absolutely. But those are exceptions. I'm not even sure how the world would actually function if God was some kind of wish fulfillment dispenser, even assuming that all the things we pray for are necessarily the best outcome from God's point of view. What we do have is the ability to call out to God to inspire, strengthen and guide us, which is how many wonderful things come about in this world. It's up to us to build a peaceful and more just world and try to ease the suffering of others.

However, people still have free will. They can choose not to let God work in their life. They can choose actions which are destructive to themselves and others if they want. Which causes suffering.

So innocent babies dying from cancer or in war zones are 'choosing not to let God help' ?

And very devout Christians are dying in accidents and from cancer despite praying and choosing to 'let God work in their life' ?

What we do have is the ability to call out to God to inspire, strengthen and guide us, which is how many wonderful things come about in this world

These wonderful things might well have happened regardless.

Maybe even more wonderful would happen without a god?

@redlavender, just because a life is short, it doesn't mean it isn't one that is any less worthwhile. I have had cancer and at the same time had people very close to me die from cancer. None of us know for definite when our life will end. And I also think it important to remember for people like me, faith is a comfort. Attempting to shake that faith can be pretty hurtful.

@heyhohello I apologise if my post implied me challenging your faith. I respect your faith and your views on religion.

I think I struggle with the concept of God letting young innocent children or vulnerable adults suffer and die, even if they and their families are Christian and prey to God.