Will you make it to Heaven? Cont.

[VincitVeritas1]

Feel free to join me in a discussion about Heaven according to the Holy Bible/ Christianity in general.

Some Renaissance astrologers/artists, I have read, used to try and affect destiny by painting particular constellations...

Well I think that is a very different question to looking for evidence of God which meets current scientific criteria.

But you can read occult science in several different ways. It quite literally means hidden knowledge (science meaning knowledge in this context)

probably reaching a peak in the 19th century there was a push to use scientific methodology with occult practices to obtain replicable results. But I personally don’t see that this would ever meet scientific criteria. From my personal experience results are very much personal - of course some will disagree but that’s my perspective

Instead of either discounting that data as inconclusive by itself/random or not noticing the data at all because your focus has moved on or deciding the particular consideration untrue for lack of conclusive evidence and regarding data as either random or not noticing the data.

I really do try to be curious and open minded to any and all evidence.

We've learned so much already over the past hundreds of years - eg the theory of evolution and how parts of the universe were formed. Hopefully we'll learn more over time, although I'm ok with it maybe not being in my lifetime

But what would you count as evidence

But you can read occult science in several different ways. It quite literally means hidden knowledge (science meaning knowledge in this context)

@Kdtym10, but isn't all undiscovered knowledge 'hidden' in a way until it is sought, discovered and interpreted? In a way science attempts to predict future events by searching for and finding reliable, repeatable, thus knowable patterns in the way things occur. Rupert Sheldrake (Merlin's father) has some interesting theories on that point, that is regarding the way patterns within scientific endeavour unfold.

Yes, but occult knowledge tends to be that purposefully hidden, scientific knowledge has yet to be discovered.

Although I can see a perspective regarding reframing. How much “scientific knowledge” has already been discovered but expressed differently and science is just reframing it in a new paradigm?. How much has bed. Previously discovered and forgotten with the downfall of empires and individual deaths?

How much “scientific knowledge” has already been discovered but expressed differently and science is just reframing it in a new paradigm?. How much has bed. Previously discovered and forgotten with the downfall of empires and individual deaths?

Indeed. However the Rupert Sheldrake theories put an interesting slant on this. How much could science be affected by people's particular scientific endeavour? The act of people discovering? And going on from this what effect suppressing discoveries could potentially have.

Last post @Kdtym10.

I think for me, it's all evidence of the Divine Logos at work. The more we learn about the universe and reality, the more mind-blowingly incredible it becomes.

@Mustardseed86 I agree.

Reminds me of when DT’s were about eight and school was covering the Big Bang Theory - certainly sparked their interest in science and the world around them.

Sorry, what does?

Earlier posts about science, data and knowledge

@Parker231 wow! What sort of school did your twins go to? Don't think my DC covered anything like that 8! At university now as well and hoping to have a career in research.

interested to see the level of discussion at your 8 year olds school. Can you expand on this please. What were they discussing and how did this link into the discussions on this thread?

It’s more than 10 years ago now but the class were discussing evolution, science and the universe- got DT’s interest. From memory they watched some videos on Big Bang theory. Links into how we were created although this thread has moved on from going to heaven!

These threads usually do as some people inevitably question the whole belief system of heaven and hell etc

@Parker231 but still sounds pretty advanced for 8 years old. In the uk mine was just learning about the planets in our solar system. Evolution and Big Bang are quite complex for 8!

DT’s went to an international school in London (state schools couldn’t handle trilingual children!). I think evolution - Charles Darwin’s Origin of the Species is covered in KS2. Good luck for DC’s career in research.

@Parker231 thanks.

Still not quite sure of the link tbh. Does it not remind you more of their RE lessons? They probably had a cursory look at creation stories etc too. I’m keen to understand why you chose to compare this discussion with your 8 year olds class. Can you detail any specific line of argument here rather than generic theories of creation your 8 year olds might have become aware of at that time?

To what extent do you think your own beliefs reinforced the direction of travel for your kids?

As a matter of interest, why couldn’t a state school handle your children’s tri linguistic status? Do you think this affected their level of English in any way?

It is a shame such an accident of birth cannot be accommodated sufficiently in a state school.

Uk state schools teach in English. We wanted their education to include our own languages. Although DT’s went to a nursery in London from six months old, their English language skills were slow to develop probably as they didn’t hear it spoken at home. They caught up in the end and did their degrees in Uk Universities. Both live and work now in mainland Europe but do use English regularly in their jobs.

Thanks for explaining. I think it would be a really interesting study to see if people who maybe couldn’t appreciate the nuance of a language because, for example, they were not native speakers were more drawn to subjects with more maths elements and highly defined and therefore limited terminology, than subjects, eg English, RE, philosophy that required a more complex understanding of a language beyond definitions. It might be another reason your DTs were drawn to science.

I think with the narrowing of vocabulary, reduction in imaginative reading/reliance on AI for homework etc this might be more of a thing?

Does anyone know if there are any research papers on this?

@Kdtym10 I wouldn't discount the imagination needed for the sciences. In a way science simply is a different language. A different way of expressing what we see in the world (and beyond) around us. Without imagination there would be no theory to test, no thought experiments etc.