Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

If there is a God...why is there...

487 replies

sentinent · 03/08/2023 00:14

As advised by another poster, this post deserves a pot of its own. Something that's been niggling at me for a while now; for those who believe (or even not believe) in the existence of God/a higher power, (I firmly do believe btw), how do we explain children in pain, suffering, getting terminal diseases or being killed??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
QueenHippolyta · 26/08/2023 19:53

Modern Japanese have zero problems living according to their Shinto animist beliefs

You are projecting your experiences , your anger and gullibility onto the rest of the world.

Additionally you are ignorant of animism or ancient philosophies that posit the world exists without a creator god or indeed that the entire universe is made up of consciousness.
It's beautiful, poetic, and quite possibly may be so!
Panpsychism:
the philosophy of mind, panpsychism (/pænˈsaɪkɪzəm/) is the view that the mind or a mindlike aspect is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of reality.[1] It is also described as a theory that "the mind is a fundamental feature of the world which exists throughout the universe."[2] It is one of the oldest philosophical theories, and has been ascribed to philosophers including Thales, Plato, Spinoza, Leibniz, William James,[3] Alfred North Whitehead, Bertrand Russell, and Galen Strawson.[1] In the 19th century,
Wikipedia

PrimitivePerson · 26/08/2023 21:40

I'm not here to be insulted. I'll leave you to discuss this woo amongst yourselves...

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:47

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 19:42

In that case there's two options, survivors from a previous advanced civilisation that then had it's own missionaries that spread the myths and legends across the globe, or E,T also did a road trip across the globe spreading the stories.

Well actually they aren’t the only two options. You could start with Jung

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:48

Annaishere · 26/08/2023 19:10

They thought the sun was god

Who are “they”

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 21:49

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:47

Well actually they aren’t the only two options. You could start with Jung

But that would then mean some form of telepathy, or our Gene's are already coded with different memories of previous humans. Etc

Annaishere · 26/08/2023 21:51

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:48

Who are “they”

Early humans

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 21:52

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:48

Who are “they”

"Sun deities have often been the centre of their respective religions. Cultures and religions that have practiced prominent Sun worship include the Incas in Peru, the Nabateans, who built the city of Petra in Jordan, and Shintoism in Japan."

From google

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:54

PrimitivePerson · 26/08/2023 19:10

I'm no expert, so I won't pretend to be one, but I think ancient religions are interesting from a purely historical and sociological angle. Attempting to actually live by them in the 21st century simply causes trouble.

I appreciate humans have a need for spirituality, and that's fine, but organised religion is astonishingly corrupt and it needs to be steered well clear of.

Well yes organises religion esp in the modern era has rather questionable outcomes. For some it is a way to access the “something more” of spirituality.

Many of the mainstream religions have a more esoteric interpretation for those willing to search that’s far from anything you’d find in songs of praise that usually far more worthwhile though.

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:59

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 21:52

"Sun deities have often been the centre of their respective religions. Cultures and religions that have practiced prominent Sun worship include the Incas in Peru, the Nabateans, who built the city of Petra in Jordan, and Shintoism in Japan."

From google

Different from the Sun being God

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:00

Annaishere · 26/08/2023 21:51

Early humans

Which early humans thought the sun was actually god? All of them?

Annaishere · 26/08/2023 22:02

@OMG12 i don’t know which ones but probably there were scientifically minded cave people as well

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 22:12

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 21:59

Different from the Sun being God

Not quite, I'd debate that any sun deity for example

"Helios
Helios was the sun god of the Greek religion. They believed that he drove a chariot across the sky every day to create day and night. In Ancient Greece, Helios was depicted as having a bright crown and driving a horse-drawn chariot. He was also celebrated as a guardian of truthfulness and of sight."

Would be a sun god

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:27

Annaishere · 26/08/2023 22:02

@OMG12 i don’t know which ones but probably there were scientifically minded cave people as well

So you’re basically just stating something you’ve made up in your mind and undertaken no research on as fact in an attempt to make disparaging remarks about the concept of belief systems?

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:31

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 22:12

Not quite, I'd debate that any sun deity for example

"Helios
Helios was the sun god of the Greek religion. They believed that he drove a chariot across the sky every day to create day and night. In Ancient Greece, Helios was depicted as having a bright crown and driving a horse-drawn chariot. He was also celebrated as a guardian of truthfulness and of sight."

Would be a sun god

And you don’t think this might have been some kind of allegory or a comment re the causes of the movement of the sun. I mean look up at the sun, does it look like a chariot? Can you see a crowned figure driving it? Think about it. The sun hasn’t really changed in appearance. Now think about the also “guardian or truthfulness and sight”

Annaishere · 26/08/2023 22:33

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:27

So you’re basically just stating something you’ve made up in your mind and undertaken no research on as fact in an attempt to make disparaging remarks about the concept of belief systems?

It isn’t disparaging. I think the sun as good is a beautiful concept. It’s something I’ve come across I don’t remember exact details but it goes back to the time of cave paintings.

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 22:38

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:31

And you don’t think this might have been some kind of allegory or a comment re the causes of the movement of the sun. I mean look up at the sun, does it look like a chariot? Can you see a crowned figure driving it? Think about it. The sun hasn’t really changed in appearance. Now think about the also “guardian or truthfulness and sight”

If all was logical then there would be no god's no mythological beings. Etc.

BadHairBae · 26/08/2023 22:38

I remember hearing this quote in 'Blood Diamond' when I was a teen. And it still resonates with me.

Danny Archer - "Sometimes I wonder, will God ever forgive us for what we've done to each other? Then I look around and I realize... God left this place a long time ago."

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 22:43

BadHairBae · 26/08/2023 22:38

I remember hearing this quote in 'Blood Diamond' when I was a teen. And it still resonates with me.

Danny Archer - "Sometimes I wonder, will God ever forgive us for what we've done to each other? Then I look around and I realize... God left this place a long time ago."

And if god made us in his or her image they why be ashamed when they made us.

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:45

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 21:49

But that would then mean some form of telepathy, or our Gene's are already coded with different memories of previous humans. Etc

Potentially

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:47

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 22:38

If all was logical then there would be no god's no mythological beings. Etc.

Actually there is often a lot of logic, it’s just expressed in a different language. The mistake we often make is assuming the same world view as oit own has existed since the dawn of time.

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:48

BadHairBae · 26/08/2023 22:38

I remember hearing this quote in 'Blood Diamond' when I was a teen. And it still resonates with me.

Danny Archer - "Sometimes I wonder, will God ever forgive us for what we've done to each other? Then I look around and I realize... God left this place a long time ago."

Pretty much Deism

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 22:49

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 22:47

Actually there is often a lot of logic, it’s just expressed in a different language. The mistake we often make is assuming the same world view as oit own has existed since the dawn of time.

That's also the issue with some religious texts. Some say you have to read between the lines etc but then what if the original creators didn't understand that type or style of hidden writings or what if they wrote as they wrote etc.

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 23:04

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 22:49

That's also the issue with some religious texts. Some say you have to read between the lines etc but then what if the original creators didn't understand that type or style of hidden writings or what if they wrote as they wrote etc.

It’s an interesting point. The most obvious example would be Gematria being used to interpret the Old Testament when there are different opinions as to when Gematria was introduced into Hebrew.

indeed even then there is often debate about its application.

But some things, esp symbolism is more clear cut. Eg the number 3 is linked to rebirth and renewal, 40 to cleansing etc.

Somethings take more work eg the camel going through the eye of a needle, often intercepted as a camel needing to be unburdened of its load and get on its knees to go through a gate in Jerusalem which unfortunately didn’t exist for a few hundred years after Christ as most scholars agree. Looking at contemporary sources there was a Babylonian saying regarding an elephant going through the eye of a needle which meant impossible (there’s also a theory regarding a rope which shared a similar name to camel but there’s no contemporary evidence). This would change the meaning of the passage it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven” from he needs to make himself humble and get rid of his belongings to its impossible.

So yes you do need to read between the lines at times and put on contemporary glasses.

But often it’s very clearly written but people tie themselves in all sorts of knots because the words don’t say what they want them to say. “Ye are Gods” never proved popular in its straight form.

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 23:07

OMG12 · 26/08/2023 23:04

It’s an interesting point. The most obvious example would be Gematria being used to interpret the Old Testament when there are different opinions as to when Gematria was introduced into Hebrew.

indeed even then there is often debate about its application.

But some things, esp symbolism is more clear cut. Eg the number 3 is linked to rebirth and renewal, 40 to cleansing etc.

Somethings take more work eg the camel going through the eye of a needle, often intercepted as a camel needing to be unburdened of its load and get on its knees to go through a gate in Jerusalem which unfortunately didn’t exist for a few hundred years after Christ as most scholars agree. Looking at contemporary sources there was a Babylonian saying regarding an elephant going through the eye of a needle which meant impossible (there’s also a theory regarding a rope which shared a similar name to camel but there’s no contemporary evidence). This would change the meaning of the passage it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven” from he needs to make himself humble and get rid of his belongings to its impossible.

So yes you do need to read between the lines at times and put on contemporary glasses.

But often it’s very clearly written but people tie themselves in all sorts of knots because the words don’t say what they want them to say. “Ye are Gods” never proved popular in its straight form.

To summarise then, it's all basically educated guessing.

Without a time machine then who knows to the full accuracy, bit like Daniel Jackson and the stargate symbols. Etc

OMG12 · 27/08/2023 02:18

Hawkins009 · 26/08/2023 23:07

To summarise then, it's all basically educated guessing.

Without a time machine then who knows to the full accuracy, bit like Daniel Jackson and the stargate symbols. Etc

Of course it’s educated guessing, nearly everything is to one extent or another. Scientists aren’t really sure how paracetamol works. They can make some educated guessing based on observation You find that with quite a lot of science.

Most “knowledge” is theories with a greater or lesser chance of being true.

Swipe left for the next trending thread