If there is a God...why is there...

[sentinent]

As advised by another poster, this post deserves a pot of its own. Something that's been niggling at me for a while now; for those who believe (or even not believe) in the existence of God/a higher power, (I firmly do believe btw), how do we explain children in pain, suffering, getting terminal diseases or being killed??

@Jackandjillswell, ah, you do seem rather defensive but if you're still reeling from the other thread I can understand this.

By the way, I read a Catholic Devotional every day and my mother and grandfather were Roman Catholic (but lapsed and married my Dad, (C of E). My grandfather was a Catholic convert after WW2 after he had some very strange supernatural experiences in the desert with some Bedouins. The Catholic Church were the only ones willing to help him, my Grandmother didn't convert and stayed C of E. I am not Catholic myself (baptised C of E) but don't align to any particular denomination. Just describe myself as Christian.

@Jackandjillswell

I like this prayer and pray it often :

The Unity Prayer
My adorable Jesus,
May our feet journey together.
May our hands gather in unity.
May our hearts beat in unison.
May our souls be in harmony.
May our thoughts be as one.
May our ears listen to the silence together.
May our glances profoundly penetrate each other.
May our lips pray together to gain mercy from the Eternal Father.

novenaprayer.com/2022/08/02/the-unity-prayer/

OK, fair enough.

There are 'house churches' that are very welcoming for Christians who don't align to any denomination, maybe there is one in your area?

That's really nice.

@Jackandjillswell, I think so too. 🙂

There are 'house churches' that are very welcoming for Christians who don't align to any denomination, maybe there is one in your area?

I am a member of a non denominational online church. 👍

They why create humans

Its interesting to read the gnostivlc Christian creation myth in this context

sorry meant to attract The Gnostic creation myth

So basically humans were created as tools but we didn't follow orders as the creator wanted us to?

No that isn’t the Gnostic myths I just quoted - it was a duck up by the demiurge

Me and Google, my pickle, I'll read properly rather than google basics.

One of my favourite quotes…

“Oh Thou, who Man of baser Earth didst make,
And with Paradise didst devise the snake;
For all the Sin wherewith the face of Man
Is blackened…
Man's forgiveness give - and take!

Now we have had some information posted on Gnosticism ie another view of God, do we need to clarify which 'God' we are talking about?

Most people assume we are talking about the Christian God, but there are other representations of God eg The Jewish G*d - Yahweh, the Muslim God - Allah, the Bahai God.

It would be interesting if followers of those faiths could give their answers to the original question.

@Jackandjillswell this is a good point.

We can see from a quick glance around us that a God who shields the innocent from suffering, pain and death does not exist. It doesn't therefore follow that no God exists, only that one particular idea of a God who works like that doesn't.

Well- I guess most of what we now call Gnosticism sees the whole of the physical world as suffering as it’s separation from god (the world being created by the demiurge rather than god)

I posted an outline of the Neoplatonic perspective upthread.

i assume the OP is coming from a perspective of the idea of a good god that controls everything in minute detail who has the same understanding of death and illness as individual humans.

If there was a benevolent god as in a singular conscious entity he either cannot or will not intervene and help us when we need it most, or he intervened like this: he keeps the illness from threatening your life and gets the ambulance there on time. If the latter is true you have to wonder why god can’t act more god- like

That's easy, humans wrote the fairy tales

Ultimately, anyone who is trying to convince another person of his position must shoulder the burden of proof.

If someone who believes in God wants to convince someone who doesn’t, then they must offer evidence for their case.

If a person who does not believe in God wishes to convince a believer, then the burden of proof is on them.

“There is no God” is as much of a truth claim as “There is a God.”

I think the only thing provable is that the existence or otherwise of God is unknowable. Which is another part of the whole Free Will thing. If it were possible to prove the existence of God then faith would not be a thing. We can prove the existence of electrons so no one needs to have faith in electrons we just get on with our lives accepting that electrons exist, despite having never personally seen an electron. Faith matters and cannot exist without doubt.

(But nb I do not believe that anyone who fails to find faith gets punished for it)

That's interesting.

The philosopher Blaise Paschal (1623 - 1662) said that - " If someone believes in God and God doesn't exist they have lost nothing. However, of someone doesn't believe in God and they do exist that person could be condemned to eternal torment. Therefore it is better to believe in God just in case....

correction - 'if' not 'of'

@Jackandjillswell I am familiar with that position, but if God is the type who will condemn to torment for failure to believe I would expect there to be a subclause that a cynical "just-in-case" faith was specifically excluded.

With respect, those are terrible examples. People work hard to get promotions from other people. God doesn't drop money, other people do - finding it is chance not god-given. A nice view? I suppose you could be grateful God has not caused you to be blind...

Unless someone believes in God, but its the wrong God.