Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?

[Coffeeandcards]

You might want to read this if so:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/12/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-charity-watchdog/

I'd really recommend following godloveswomen on twitter. She's really good on this stuff and pushing back against the "we shouldn't talk about it" silencing of people who are shaken and in real distress about the situation.

Good thread here but she's been saying a lot on this lately as you might imagine.

https://twitter.com/God_loves_women/status/1654083307716370434?t=zm94LZmw0u6eJLI0F8CpQw&s=19

1990s evangelical type church? Yeah, no surprise here.

Several men I know would be jailed today.

I can relate to this too, was involved in a house church in the 80s and the leader didn't like women with any independent thought and moved young men into his house. It was cultish and controlling

I think he was gay but was celibate itms

Yes this as well because the latter were more vulnerable whereas the "poshos" probably had more independent thought and dps who looked out for them

Sadly unsurprised. Recently heard that Catching the Fire (aka The Toronto Blessing Church for us 90s kids) have sacked their 3rd senior leader in as many years for misconduct. Seems like they've done a good job covering it up, but this time the Pastor who leads supernatural ministries has been shagging an intern, which in Canada could lead to charges being brought so they've quietly got rid of him and (reputedly) made the intern delete all correspondence, which I'm sure was to protect her, and not at all to prevent charges being brought.

I feel so strange. I'm not even sure what I'm feeling but really want to talk about it with people who know what it was like. And yes we did idolise him. And matt redman etc - it was just the same as having a mainstream musician as your hero with the added "god" touch. I was so excited when I got to go to sswatford church and had dreamed of going to bible college not too far from there (I didn't in the end) so I could attend the church.

It's crazy rewriting a chunk of my story which is the bit that I think I'm struggling with. I know I've left the church but I'm now questioning even the bits that felt good...

@lotsofballoons

Would you have gone to LST?

Thank you @AccidentallyFabulous that was a really interesting read.

@LotsOfBalloons yes. I remember many similar feelings to you as a teen at soul survivor in the late nineties.

I've spent a bit of time this evening reading threads on Twitter about this from people struggling to understand how god could work through someone who behaved this way. The only answer that makes sense to me is that there is no god.

To me it's human nature and ego

Woodhill- yes I was accepted to LBC as it was known. I think it changed around that time. But I went to a Normal Uni in the end (thank God.... ?!)

I think I've shelved about 8 years of my life and just hidden it in a box as I havemt made sense of it now its so far from what I believe. But at the time it all felt so real. And so urgent and important in the way things do to teens. Plus belief and evangelicalism and the desire to "do right" by God or find your calling or live a life of worship or a life pleasing to God or however you phrase it. And I totally listened to SS and vineyard music instead of Normal music. Looking back it wasn't overly healthy... but seemed great to "belong" to something greater than yourself which I think most teens crave.

I'd love to sit down with a bunch of us who were around then and talk it all through.

Do people remember Kevin Proche and kansas City prophets (also nuts looking back). I was so beyond excited to hear him play/go worship where he was a couple of times.

And all the matt redman cds with the pin up covers.

And cutting edge/delirious.

And so wanting to live your life for god...

Yet maybe a normal childhood would have been more healthy. I really don't know.

It's so good to be able to have this space to share and to hear reflections. I too would love to just have a chat with people that get it. I feel so sad and mixed up and confused and angry and then sad again.

I went to the festivals and did the Soultime gap year in 2002. Soul Sista, SoulNet, trips to SS Watford on a Sunday evening...anything going! It all formed a massive part of such a formative time in my life. It all feels so deeply unsettling now.

Cheese wow that's it exactly - and I'm guessing a similar age. I'd also wondered about the soul survivor gap year! Amd spent one ss thinking I needed to go join the Eden project (not the garden one 😂.) We were so impressionable as teens. And yet a movement of people who wanted to be and do good.

It's a mess in my head. Even though I'd not encourage my kids into church now it felt so real then and rwally did form me.

Solitary to LotsOfBalloons and others of you who are as confused and mixed up as me. As least people are talking about it now!

(I'm 39 so sounds like we crossed over at all these events at the same kind of time)

Im a few years older but yes similar time frame! It really was a huge part of life. And "taking the festival home" and pilgrimage to the festival and an uneasy linking of God being there/in the worship but not at home church and knowing that wasn't wrote right but seeking the worship experiences anyway...

I remember Mike preaching about random acts of kindness at one event and then the next day coming back from Tesco and there were people offering to wash people's cars as they came in the gate. And getting all the members of delirious to sign my badge. It was such a lovely time and now I know what was going on behind the scenes it feels spoilt somehow. And as a mum of teenage sons I feel worried that if someone like Mike Pilavachi could do something like that then how am I supposed to trust anyone to be around my boys. Also feel guilty for feeling like this when nothing bad actually happened to me so I should be thinking of all the poor people who have been abused and then not believed.

As teens my friends and I used to joke they turned the heating down when everyone got "chills" etc. We laughed at it. I'm actually more respectful of the whole thing now and believe the experiences of speaking in tongues etc can be very therapeutic. But as with all institutions you will get harmful aspects of it and as with all leaders around children you will get some opportunist weirdos.

@LotsOfBalloons @Cheeseand2veg it sounds like a similar time as me too. We need to talk about these things as even though we didn't experience what is being claimed about what Mike Pilavachi did, in reflection the whole set up was manipulative to our young impressionable minds. I have had such a reaction to all of this it has shocked me. I too felt like I had put these memories in a box. It's hard for me as my parents are heavily involved in the church. They have obviously been shaken by this news and are apologising to me and my siblings for putting us in that environment, as they didn't know what was going on. But i am battling with it all in my head. I have been searching to see if anyone has been talking about this on a podcast but can't find anything. The reason we are feeling trauma is because it was emotional and spiritual manipulation and actually the reason why I stepped away from religion. I would love to talk about it more. Feel valid in what you are feeling.

Yes it feels really topsy-turvy turvey in my head. My post- Christian self looks back on that fervent era as being a "good" thing even if not my belief system. And a way a generation felt inspired and wanted to do and be "good" was better than finding meaning in drugs and casual sex etc at the time. And it did feel so exciting to be caught up in it all.

I still want to believe that most of the people involved in it had belief/wellbeing of people and kids at heart.

It's a bit like learning part of your childhood was a lie isn't it?!

@LotsOfBalloons I do think that the majority of people in leadership roles there had good intentions. The issue I have with all of these types of events though is that when people have a strong belief in something, they want you to think the same way, so an agenda is there from the start. And this is the beginning of the manipulation. I watch a lot of programmes about cults, (probably now in reflection because of all of this experience I had buried) and there are so many things that SS do/did that match up to other cults. I know that word is emotive, and many won't agree with me, but coming from someone who grew up in a regular church, then attended these events, and New Wine, Greenbelt, Soul Sista with my family, looking back on them I think they are wrong. I can't remember if it was at Soul Sista or Soul Survivor that we were encouraged to sign a credit card type thing that was a "true love waits" card, promising God we would not have sex before we were married! I mean, that is messed up. I got engaged young, still married to the same man 20 years on, but when we met, I had just signed this card, so had HUGE turmoil over that. This is what bothers me, people have good intentions, but in the end, if you end up going back to your old ways after leaving the event, or doing things that you have been told are wrong and make you a bad person, all it ends up doing is making you feel so shit about yourself

I only know Mike from his podcast with Andy during covid, which I found really helpful so I'm sad he has a hidden side. While i'm about the right age for Soul Survivor I never went because I passionately hate camping. Looks like I may have dodged a bullet.

Plus a relative was kicked out of the CoE for having an affair with an assistant so I have a healthy amount of cynicism for church leadership. You can't expect to sit on a pedestal with no scrutiny anymore, times have changed. Look at Hillsong, or what was Hillsong as it seems to be disintegrating.

This has had quite an effect on me as I experienced a lot of these events as a teen, although not Soul Survivor. I am in my early 50s so just missed it I think.

I have just started listening to a podcast Matt Redman does with a US worship leader, I am starting with Encounter vs Entertainment. This is because I am worried about if this emotional vibe still happens. The language used is all coming back to me and it sounds so odd now, very in its own bubble, where I no longer reside.

As well as the fallout from this particular situation and the shock and sadness looking at the wider reach I can see it has had on people, I am actually booked for Big Church Day Out on a friend’s recommendation and am now wondering if that’s going to be a similar atmosphere and if I want to go. I have not been to a music festival before and wanted to try it, which is why she suggested it.

That’s why I have started listening to the podcast, to try and assuage my fears about what it will be like. So far it’s making me cringe and then feel guilty that I am no longer like that.

I do still consider myself a Christian hence going to this festival but I left the evangelical Anglican church I was in as it was all about praying in tongues and falling on the floor in worship (that was the vicar) and it stressed me out.

Anyway, I wanted to connect as a few people have done. Sorry to ramble!

I actually think Greenbelt is fab for post Christian/no longer evo Christians and takes away that needing to all believe the same thing factor.

Interesting about cults. I have wondered too where the dividing lines are.... it happened in the vineyard too where they focused on certain worship leaders and pastors ruled their church entirely on "what God's telling me today."

Just popping back to say that for anyone who is struggling with this for whatever reason, the woman whose twitter I linked to earlier is running a webinar soon with discussions of practical ways to deal with what this means for you.

Link below, just tagging @LotsOfBalloons , @FluffyCat17 @emmeline8228 , @Cheeseand2veg just in case this is of any use to any of you. Natalie Collins, who is running it, is still very much in the Christian world but I think it will be useful even if that's not where you are now. She is awesome.

https://twitter.com/God_loves_women/status/1654929004699295750?t=P3UtG1iag4gSF4HxBBqAAA&s=19

Yes this looks great and I've signed up. Thanks for highlighting it x