Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?

[Coffeeandcards]

You might want to read this if so:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/12/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-charity-watchdog/

Mike Pilavachi supports Living Out, an organisation that teaches that homosexuality is wrong and that gay people shoud either be celibate or get married to someone of the opposite sex. Although strangely enough they seem to have taken hisendorsement off their website.

What is weird is that I haven't been part of the evangelical church for decades now, but when I heard about this my first thought was "Mike Pilavachi! I know him!" Then I had to check myself cos I don't know him at all. But the name still has a weird celebrity status somewhere in my subconscious. Along with Steve Chalk, Nicky Gumbel and Billy Graham...

yep me too. Soul Survivor had a huge reach - literature, CDs, books. And of course it was the home of Matt Redman whose music is played in churches all over. Wonder what his experience was like.

Agree it’s all very weird, especially as the original statement said “It was stressed that "the police are not involved; this is not a criminal investigation and Mike has not been suspended."

why on earth wasn’t he suspended immediately (if not years ago) if this was common knowledge in the church?

I remember safeguarding training being rolled out in my church in the early 2000s and my youth worker suddenly started getting his wife to drive me home after babysitting for them when I was a teenager. This isn’t like Jimmy Saville where a lot of it happened a long time ago when ‘things were different’. The leadership at SS must be totally corrupt or very weak.

I know I worked at new wine rather than soul survivor but I had to go through all the checks, references etc. I can just about imagine one individual managing to get away with doing something like that but I can't believe so many people would know about it and turn a blind eye. It's just not the soul survivor/new wine that I remember.

Again I cannot stress enough that I saw or know of no allegations at the similar church I attended.
But I do recognise a lot of the other stuff in the report - the cliqueness, the desperation to be the in crowd and the power and status the leader had. The church were far more interested in the ‘troubled kids’ from the rough comp than us poshos from the church Grammar. We weren’t interesting enough. It was far better to have a conversion story about how someone turned away from drink and sex to Jesus. I felt very excluded having always lead a good and pure life 🤣
The leader has the power to make you feel included or on the periphery. After a lengthy talk about how god calls us to different roles I was then asked to step down from the singers in the worship group on stage because I was called to operated the OHP projector! Funny how it was always the pretty girls called to sing!

We were encouraged to have lengthy prayer sessions where we confessed all our sins and admitted how unhappy we were. In my desperation I certainly made up or exaggerated some. The same with prophetic gifts or tongues, I found myself getting carried away in the hysteria. That’s how I now see it as. An intensely emotional and psychological environment that encouraged such behaviour. I can see so clearly how it could be manipulated and how vulnerable people could easily be abused.

For myself I mostly regret that if I hadn’t been tangled up in the evangelical and charismatic movement I might have had a lot more fun at university!!!

Has anyone seen Matt Redman’s statement on twitter ? It feels a bit ambiguous, I’m not sure what to make of the sentence saying that he cannot comment on his own experience whilst the investigation is ongoing.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of it either. The whole thing has shocked me to be honest. Both the investigation and a lot of the comments on this thread near no resemblance to the soul survivor experience I remember.

I've been thinking about this quite a lot since this first came out. I only went to Soul Survivor once (mainly because I hate camping 🤣) but I was very involved in a youth group based in an evangelical church in my teens. I can well believe that people turned a blind eye to it for years. At my own church I became close to a girl who joined the youth club for a few months. She suddenly left and when we talked she confided in me that one of the youth workers (who did the Soul Survivor gap year scheme iirc), who was several years older than her, had seduced her, had sex with her and then dumped her. I immediately brought this to the attention to the group leader because of the power imbalance and age difference. He couldn't have been less interested and said that she was over 16 (just!) and that these things happen. I was essentially told to go away and shut up.

A few years later I was raped by one of the ministers of the evangelical church I was attending.

I'm really starting to think that sexual and emotional abuse are inherent features of evangelical Christianity, not a bug.

@Reallybadidea I'm so sorry that happened to you and your friend, that's awful.

Thank you @elliejjtiny This story has stirred up a lot of anger I'd buried. So often abuse seems to go hand in hand with charisma and power.

I am really, really sorry.
I keep reading your sentence again and it brings me up short each time.

As someone who went to many of these events as a teenager, I can comment on some of the things that happened. Not anything about the allegations, but in response to your comment about not writing off the whole ministry, I think that you need to look a bit closer into what this ministry actually entails. Groups of young people and teenagers, impressionable at that age, being put in situations that were manipulative and damaging. These events included huge concerts that excited everyone, then the music would change, lights would dim and there was an expectation then that God was there and was going to do things to show that. People were encouraged to feel a certain way, act a certain way, like speaking in tongues (which I pretended to do, as I wanted to belong), falling over in the power of the holy spirit as someone (a stranger) would put a hand on your head and encourage (push) you to the floor. The messages are very clear at these events - you are not good enough, but you can be if you follow God. It is dangerous and I don't care what anyone says, it is cult-like. I am a grown woman now and this news article has dragged up many emotions for me of this time. I feel trauma from this in reflection. I honestly think it is such a dangerous position we are putting young people in, and I know many people who have been messed up by what they experienced at these events. So it is not about writing off the ministry on this basis, it needs looking into as a whole!!!

This has so many echos of the Ravi Zacharias scandal - people within the organisation having suspicions but unable to question the leader. So many of these organisations seem to be going the same way - Hillsong is a dreadful organisation with all sorts of horrible behaviors by male leadership.

I think when you are closely involved in something like this, that also has personal and spiritual meaning in your life, it can be easy to see and remember things how you believed it to be, as you had good intentions. The whole nature of these events in my opinion (having grown up in the church, gone to New Wine and Soul Survivor many times, and since moved away from religion) - I have a strong belief that any group that holds itself up to speak the words of God, are dangerous. If a group are trying to convince young people in this instance that they can be "saved" from all that is wrong with them, and wrong in their lives, that is a big shout, and can only lead to disappointment, and self-deprecation, low self-esteem and not feeling good enough. Most leaders go in to these situations with good intentions, but if you really break down what you are actually telling people, it is an ideology that is manipulative and wrong.

I went to soul survivor a good number of times in my teens and thinking back there was a definite vibe of manifesting strong emotions and the 'presence of the holy spirit' through the music, lighting, etc. I remember being thoroughly disappointed in myself being stood in a sea of people who had 'fallen down' with the presence of God, and I was completely untouched. I made eye contact with Tim Hughes who was leading the worship at that moment and felt like a complete failure that he had seen my lack of response!

Anyway, yep def a lot of 'hero worship' with Mike, and Tim/Pete/Matt and crew. I was obsessed with the idea of marrying Tim when I grew up 🤣 I can imagine the kind of power that Mike would have held over the up and coming worship leaders and preachers and it's all very gutting to hear the details of how Mike behaved.

Wow, this is all bringing back things I'd forgotten - the comparisons of who fell over and who didn't etc. I thought i must be very unspiritual to not be affected! And I remember bringing "an experience ' to one of the leaders who didn't question any of it (basically me making more of a natural phenomenon than necessary! ) and they went on the proclaim to the group how amazing were the things he'd heard about.

Was everyone pretending/ getting carried away? I'm not at all religious now, not sure I ever was really.

I suppose some people might have been faking the falling over stuff. I personally didn't experience that as did many other people so not sure why people were feeling left out or unspiritual for not falling over.

I think some of this is a phenomenon brought on by exposure to certain aspects of the physical environment:

You stand in a large, crowded room
You are conditioned (as all humans are) to be influenced by those around you
You are exposed to ongoing, slightly too loud and repetitive music
You are exposed to emotional, often repetitive, chanting and statements
You sing songs that are pitched slightly too high
Then to top it all off you hold your hands in the air for 10-15 minutes at a time

No wonder you feel a bit light headed, emotional and susceptible to what people might be suggesting.

Very interesting discussion here. I did one of the six-month Soul Survivor residential courses for 18-25 yr olds in the late 90s. I actually remember doing a preaching workshop with MP and choosing to talk about favouritism (James ch. I); he didn't much like what I said. I wasn't in the inner circle, but got some insight into the way the church operated, at that time at least. A lot was at stake in a particular vision of masculinity and femininity: there were girls' nights when we ate ice cream and did hair and make-up (not my scene); the boys did macho sports and athletic feats (eg, wrestling...) and got pep-talks about masturbation. Not much was said openly about homosexuality but when it was, it was clear the position was conservative. There were intense services, prophecy and tongues etc, but when it was week after week rather than a big festival it was more low key and you could see a bit of cynicism. (I remember a worship leader picking the songlist on the basis of which ones would "get hands in the air".) I feel angry now about what looks like the hypocrisy on sexual ethics, the gender stereotyping, and the manipulations, but also have to acknowledge that the church was strong on social justice and helped me form political and social values which have lasted. Those that I got to know well also had a lot of integrity and sincerity, and cared deeply for victims of abuse. I feel like they got groomed too. Very struck by the statement from Matt Redman.

I had super low self esteem as a young person and those falling over and speaking in tongues events made me feel awful, because I never felt any of those things. I remember at a (not soul survivor) event going to the front for prayer and three people laying hands on me saying "it's ok to fall over, it's God" and I felt quite scared! I managed to get away and my friend (who also went for prayer) and I left the building and were like WTF were they pushing you too??

I also remember being at one of the Evo festivals (maybe SS?) and leaving the big main worship (cos it got weird) and sitting in a cafe tent thing, and a member of the "detached youth" team came to sit with me to ask me why I wasn't in the meeting and did I need to talk about anything? No,.I just don't want to be surrounded by weirdos barking like a dog in the name of Jesus. The slow music praying section got super boring too.

That's appalling. I'm so sorry.

Wow this has really hit me.

I'm no longer in the church scene and no idea what to make of all my experiences. But he was one of the good guys!? Well maybe not. I still remember how I felt in worship even though I'm not sure about God anymore. I have such a mix of emotions reading this.

And I remember him being so proud of matt redman. And he did pretty much "make" his career and fame. I hope he's okay.

I'm amazed if those worship leaders had been affected that they kept their faith.

I did wonder about starting a new thread with Mike pilavachi in the title... to make it clearer. I feel the need to talk about this but people in my new life don't know who he is.

@LotsOfBalloons good idea. I've been trying to talk to dh about this but he doesn't get it.