Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?

[Coffeeandcards]

You might want to read this if so:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/12/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-charity-watchdog/

Is this the BBC article you mean?

'Church seems less safe' says bishop after abuse panel sacked www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65990105

There are some really interesting comments on this site, particularly one around 'revolutionary morality'.

Soul Survivor suspends two more staff | Thinking Anglicans

This is a Marxist idea, taken up by Trotsky, that whatever the proponents of the revolution (or movement) do is intrinsically 'right' and should be supported, whereas anyone in opposition to the revolution (or movement) is wrong.

I know the phenomenon of someone being above criticism because they are so successful has been observed before, but it is a useful way of framing the concept.

Hmm... maybe that's a particularly problematic phenomenon in religious organisations where success may be presumed to be due to god's blessing on the leader or organisation.

Yes I experienced this in the 80s where an elder practically said it was ok to lie if it protected a leader, so long ago can't remember the details

I thin It involved a woman who had "fallen from Grace" 😕

Yes it's a bit like collateral for the bigger picture.

The way I see it - the idea of the superstar untouchable leader is not more pervasive in one denomination than another as at the core foundation of it all is group dynamics and what will keep the group safe? Adherence to a set of ‘rules’ that the group requires a leader to interpret for them and keep them safe. Moving away from set of rules gets called heresy in a religious context.

Go to the little local church I have moved from and there is an untouchable leader who is anointed by God….it’s a construct that is in the dna of the institution which is why it pops up so often.

I do think it's more pervasive in some churches (in my previous post I said Pentecostalism is one.)

The real point is that no church is immune. In theory, in a church organised on the basis of parishes and dioceses every person is accountable right up to the Archbishop as other than that one person there's a human above them in the food chain. But that assumes that the people in the system are making themselves accountable or are being held accountable.

On that Thinking Anglicans page someone mentioned the Nine o Clock Service and I think that happened in a parish.

Yes, the Nine o'clock service was a parish in Sheffield. Think it was a youngish priest sent in to revitalise the parish, support of the Bishop and all sorts. The whole thing turned into a personality cult and ended v badly.

The CofE can't keep trying to cover up, brush off, play down and dismiss things that have happened. Sacking the members of the independent tribunal seems like just the latest in a sorry tale of safeguarding errors and shortfalls, and they need to sort it out otherwise what trust that remains in the CofE is not to last. Of ALL institutions, the church(es) should be above reproach as far as possible.

At the very least it's very bad timing. The C of E has never been good at optics.

One of my DPs is very involved in the C of E. She says safeguarding is emphasized at every turn and there all all manner of courses that have to be done - the name of Bishop Ball is invoked at every turn. But the training itself, she says, is very poorly presented in her opinion. She said that at the last one she attended she couldn't even understand half of what the presenter said - they just mumbled their way through it.

@TomPinch
yes in my experience too, the safeguarding training in my area is poorly presented.
I don’t even know if it’s moved back from online.
They ‘try’ but not hard enough. Any many participants are a bit unaware and naive.

At the last 2 trainings the presenter looked quite put out when I mentioned/asked why the main/only focus is on children. Clearly children are vitally important. But in our church for example we have adults with learning disabilities. We used to have an autistic chap that shouted when alarmed and people let their dc run near him because they had no respect for his needs. The presenter gave the air of not realising or cared that safeguarding is bigger than looking out for children coming to Sunday School with bruises or dirty clothes.

I also said that I thought ‘church parents’ were being naive letting very small (primary and much younger) children roam round free range - out of sight in the grounds, to toilets etc. on the basis that everyone is dbs checked. Like that is any guarantee and of course the general congregation aren’t all dbs checked. Some parents seemed to perceive me as being suspicious of good people when I said that. They wouldn’t let their child for example go to the toilets in town unsupervised at 5 years old.

interesting and horrible that this MP issue also isn’t with children, but young adults. Also horrible that apparently no crime has been committed so MP and others are above the law and technically innocent.

Finally he has resigned:

Premier Christianity: <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.07.11-111715/www.premierchristianity.com/news-analysis/mike-pilavachi-has-resigned-from-soul-survivor-heres-what-we-know-so-far/15307.article" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.07.11-111715/www.premierchristianity.com/news-analysis/mike-pilavachi-has-resigned-from-soul-survivor-heres-what-we-know-so-far/15307.article

Telegraph: https://archive.ph/7RcSA

Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02EP7xa8nG24HfjpZTKa9jH54yjCmhYxgupDTuWxqoTWd8p9Uhwe3ggUfrHeUUGRbkl&id=100000022822516

Thanks to God Loves Women Timeline: https://mrsglw.wordpress.com/2023/05/14/the-soul-survivor-situation-a-timeline/

The Telegraph article puts it well when it states:
"These are not the words of someone who appreciates the scope and depth of the pain and trauma they've inflicted. It also has the temerity to suggest that he would be a victim himself of 'trial by social media' continuing his decades long practice of making himself the wounded party of any criticism in order to elicit sympathy and deflect from his actions. This statement makes me incredibly sad."

Glad he retired but yeah he does not appear to acknowledge what he's done

So is that it now. All buried under the carpet?

That's what I'm expecting.

Unfortunately with many of these things the message appears to be very tone deaf and as you say will end up pushed under the carpet.
I am however feeling hopeful that if Sam Howson gets his documentary out there, there will start to be some accountability on a wider scale.

https://twitter.com/samhowson/status/1675096908832948228?s=20

Surely he would have been advised by lawyers not to incriminate himself? Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

Is anyone actually taking him to court for what he’s done? Or is it yet another Anglican brush under the carpet job?

Oh my word, I can’t believe that they accepted his resignation.

Isn’t that the first rule of handling any kind of investigation, that you don’t let the person just resign/disappear quietly?

Plus placing himself as the victim of a ‘trial by social media’. Really poor choice of words.

I was so disappointed in the response to MP's social media posts - J John etc giving him full support! And so many likes. Awful.
I'd advise people to read Matt Redman's post from this morning (fb and twitter) saying he witnessed MP's activities first hand we should all be mindful of over one hundred victims and survivors.

I've just gone to look at Matt Redman's statement now.
It's very very concerning that even as it comes to light, there are still prominent figures in that branch of the church willing to back MP when, as Redman says, there's hundreds of victims in this who have been gaslit and ignored.

It doesn't even say he witnessed it, it said he experienced it.

You're right @Nomorenonbinary - so sad for him and Beth, the last few months must have been so awful for them, and around when it happened, when they were ignored, etc. It feels like such a big moment for the church. Also I saw this - https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2023/14-july/news/uk/archbishop-welby-undermined-me-meg-munn-quits-as-church-s-safeguarding-chair - really what is going on at the CofE? What a clusterf**k.

Wow, poor MR. And I hope he feels better now.

What’s going on in the C of E? We are seeing the ‘fruit’ of the people who lead it.

My experience of working in a c of e Christian organisation was passive aggressive behaviour, a celebration of mediocrity and delusion with what people were/weren’t interested in !!
Some good uns but I made a swift exit and went back to employment ‘in the world’ which is much more straightforward.

Gosh yes - the fact MR mentioned this at the time and it got brushed under the carpet. Its an issue to the core isnt it...

Matt Redman has said that he was a victim.

I used to go to Soul Survivor when Matt Redman was first on and becoming a name. I never forgot seeing what Pilavachi did on stage to those young worship leader men. He was so overfamiliar - he would teach the young people in the congregation how to pray for others, and he’d demonstrate it by grabbing the male members of the worship team and running his hand over their faces and stuff as an example of how not to pray for other people especially people of the opposite sex. It was so so creepy. It was more another young man I saw him do it to, I hope he’s complained.