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Philosophy/religion

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LotsOfBalloons · 14/07/2023 07:44

He used to talk about how he'd bought MR up and out from a difficult life didn't he and it was obvious they were close.

He didn't walk away though. I guess when you're in it you don't try and leave ebecause "it's God's work" and he's made his fortune from it. But that doesn't make it right

Sameynamey · 15/07/2023 14:01

https://twitter.com/heyjames/status/1680136430306066434?s=46&t=oe6Lr-bMkSpnC5WBu8BQOw

doesn’t surprise me that there might be financial investigation needed too. I was always puzzled at the number of trips abroad needed. California, Hawaii, Canada, Mexico etc. All beautiful destinations visited by the leaders plus Mike.

There was even a ski mission trip one year, it’s laughable and infuriating that people thought this was ok. To do these jaunts with charity money.

https://twitter.com/heyjames/status/1680136430306066434?s=46&t=oe6Lr-bMkSpnC5WBu8BQOw

Sameynamey · 15/07/2023 14:11

Pretty sure that MP is socking on Twitter too, a couple of anon accounts defending him with his own brand of sarcasm and passive aggression.

FriendofDorothy · 17/07/2023 12:57

I grew up in Elim and then latterly Newfrontiers and spent most of my teenage years actively involved in the churches.

It's interesting, and distressing, to view those experiences, with the benefit of age and experience, as well as a better understanding of what manipulation and gaslighting looks like. I can safely say that at the time I didn't question it but I can very clearly see how the power dynamic is heavily weighted towards those in authority and it would be very easy for them to abuse that power. I went to Soul Survivor as a university student and found it very toxic although I was too immature to be able to identify that it was.

For me, Greenbelt saved my faith. It gave me breathing space and the opportunity to critically reflect on the over-emotional experiences I had. It encouraged me to question those in authority and ask difficult questions and expect answers and hold people to account. It made me a bigger pain in the ass than ever before and I am very grateful for it.

elliejjtiny · 17/07/2023 13:21

I remember MP being very touchy feely with the worship leaders but my teenage self seeing it from the other side of a massive venue just thought it was normal banter. Now I'm older I'm looking at it in a new light. I've been following what Matt Redman has been saying and I think he has behaved with great dignity (not sure if that's the right word) through all of this.

Sameynamey · 17/07/2023 16:20

Agree that Matt is acting with dignity and courage. I notice some of the others from that group of original ‘Pilly Boys’ are keeping quiet.

There was another post on Twitter about someone let go from SS Watford during covid who was working with homeless refugees. He was treated really badly, gaslit, bullied and thought it was because he spoke out about management there.

Yet the buildings manager was kept on as was his wife who ran Soul61. There seems be a lot of money that disappeared in to Soul61- possibly that 500k donation?

Interesting that the buildings manager is the brother of one of MP favoured few who went through SS, HTB and now vicaring in London.

A tangled web of organisational and management corruption which the journalists are sniffing around.

Those trips to Hawaii were regular weren’t they? Great use of charity money.

FluffyCat17 · 17/07/2023 18:10

Blimey. A brave man and so sad what it’s done to his well-being, social life and faith.

JustUsHere · 21/07/2023 09:36

@Sameynamey, re trips to Hawaii, I must be running my charity (that I direct!) wrong. We are lucky if we get a trip to Birmingham and lunch in Nando’s (and that’s including a train ticket from Coventry!) 🙄

BadSkiingMum · 21/07/2023 15:01

The overseas trips are just shameful - flying to a different continent to 'spread the word'? You would probably encounter more people in need of help and support by taking public transport to the airport. What honestly went through the mind of trustees and colleagues at SoulSurvivor (which I understand was a slightly scruffy warehouse site in Watford) when he shared his plans for those trips, wrote 'Mike away in Hawaii 17th-29th' on a calendar or submitted his expense claims? Did anyone have or raise any doubts about the ethics of or justification for these missions?

But the general tendency of evangelical Christianity towards 'growth' has always puzzled me. Why is it necessary, constantly getting bigger and bigger, planting churches here, there and everywhere? I know that there is a biblical basis for evangelism, but surely it would be more meaningful to actually reach out to those in real need in the local community around your existing church, those experiencing poverty, addiction or social problems. But perhaps it is simply easier to plant a good-looking young vicar and his wife in the next town and hoover up all the easy, low-hanging fruit in the form of students, young people, harrassed mums, retired couples and say 'Lo, look at our wonderful new church and the good work we are doing.'

To me it just reads like building a power base.

BadSkiingMum · 21/07/2023 15:06

@FriendofDorothy what were your experiences within Elim? Do you think it has the same tendency towards over-powerful leadership?

BadSkiingMum · 21/07/2023 15:52

I have just read that Mike Pilivachi has an MBE...

grass321 · 21/07/2023 20:28

To me it just reads like building a power base.

It felt a bit like that at times. In the end, the offshoot churches mostly dwindled and were re-absorbed into the original ones after a few years as separate entities.

FriendofDorothy · 21/07/2023 21:30

BadSkiingMum · 21/07/2023 15:06

@FriendofDorothy what were your experiences within Elim? Do you think it has the same tendency towards over-powerful leadership?

I think less so... they are much 'less cool' in many ways so don't really engender the same type of hero worship which is so pervasive in places like HTB. However, I guess that any church can have rogue leadership if the circumstances are right.

grass321 · 22/07/2023 07:16

I'm still shocked by what's come out about Mike. He was early in his career when he took over our youth group but he came across as humble and a really nice guy. Just shows that there's often more than meets the eye.

I'd definitely agree with the hero worship though. I'm sure our church was keen to boost their popularity amongst teenagers as 'the future' and Mike offered that.

DustintheWindDude · 22/07/2023 12:06

Please excuse my ignorance but are we talking about a specific church in London here or something? Anglican born and bred but never even heard of these people. I've been to New Wine and it was just a nice camping trip - no funny business at all.

LotsOfBalloons · 22/07/2023 13:56

Yes the same people that did hte summer camps also had a church (was a youth church but they grew up) in watford.

grass321 · 22/07/2023 15:53

We were at St Andrew's Chorleywood.

DustintheWindDude · 22/07/2023 19:30

I see, thanks, that's probably why then.

Also went to something I can't quite remember the name of like Harvest festival (but not)?

Cheeseand2veg · 22/07/2023 19:31

I think you might mean Spring Harvest? Still happens at Easter every year

DustintheWindDude · 22/07/2023 19:37

Cheeseand2veg · 22/07/2023 19:31

I think you might mean Spring Harvest? Still happens at Easter every year

Yes that's the one! Thanks x

guineacup · 22/07/2023 22:32

DustintheWindDude · 22/07/2023 12:06

Please excuse my ignorance but are we talking about a specific church in London here or something? Anglican born and bred but never even heard of these people. I've been to New Wine and it was just a nice camping trip - no funny business at all.

There was no "funny business" at Soul Survivor camps either. If you'd been, you'd likely have had a similar experience to the one you had at New Wine.

Nomorenonbinary · 22/07/2023 22:57

guineacup · 22/07/2023 22:32

There was no "funny business" at Soul Survivor camps either. If you'd been, you'd likely have had a similar experience to the one you had at New Wine.

How can you possibly claim that? You don't know everybody's experience of soul survivor.

Sameynamey · 23/07/2023 01:07

BadSkiingMum · 21/07/2023 15:52

I have just read that Mike Pilivachi has an MBE...

🤢

Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?
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