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42
BadSkiingMum · 23/05/2023 10:46

Oh my goodness, that's amazing. I have been turning this over in my mind for years, wondering who or how could bring this to greater attention.

And this, YES this:

'It's not just about Mike, it's about a massive movement that has (in the most part, I hope) unintentionally left many people (myself included) traumatised through spiritual abuse and manipulation.'

LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 12:12

Yes all of that. Although I don't think the current leaders/ C of E would see the wider manipulation/abuse ...

FluffyCat17 · 23/05/2023 12:51

Erm…

Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?
LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 13:40

Oh wow that's not great is it. 🙈.

Tim Hughes became pretty big though, did they all just cover their own backs (matt redman etc). Did none of them speak out!?

As for Biddulph. Googled and one of the first reports is that their charity commission report is overdue...

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/sector-data/top-10-charities/-/charity-details/4040758/full-print

SOUL SURVIVOR INTERNATIONAL - Charity 1126670

Charity details for SOUL SURVIVOR INTERNATIONAL - Charity 1126670

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/sector-data/top-10-charities/-/charity-details/4040758/full-print

LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 14:13

I've just remembered the "biblical manhood and womanhood" book by piper and grudem. Full on complementarity viewpoint with women submissive...

emmeline8228 · 23/05/2023 14:25

LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 12:12

Yes all of that. Although I don't think the current leaders/ C of E would see the wider manipulation/abuse ...

I know, there will definitely be many who don't. I still hold on to a small hope that maybe even just a few may actually have their eyes opened to this. There is always some religious scandal going on, Hillsong being a recent one that comes to mind, but when it is happening here on their own doorstep, and with so many people speaking out, how can they ignore it?
My dad is in a position of leadership in the church, so this is a contentious issue to discuss, although he is open to talk about it, I am not shying away from those confronting conversations that need to be had.

LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 14:41

Yes I remember the tenancy to think church was a "special case" or different. And also assumed "x wouldn't happen here" as there was the feeling you knew each other really well.

We'd also point to certain churches and say "well we're not like x because yz" and distance ourselves. Ultimately everything we were doing was For God and therefore overruled everything....

As for working for a church. Never again! I was initially employed mon-fri but needed Sunday (didn't get a day off in leiu like the pastors) and expected to answer work related queries etc. I co-led the evening congregation... and obvious midweek stuff that goes with the territory (house groups, leaders meetings...) so unhealthy. But it's "for the Lord!". Sigh.

LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 14:41

Tendency.

MrsJamin · 23/05/2023 19:30

Anyone else seriously questioning being part of the C of E anymore? Their lack of care over safeguarding is just outrageous.

FluffyCat17 · 23/05/2023 19:54

Our Diocese is extremely ‘on it’ in terms of safeguarding requirements, training and responsibilities so I don’t feel this is everywhere, no. I do wonder how the message hasn’t filtered through to certain churches/bishops though.

PrimitivePerson · 23/05/2023 22:03

The huge problem with the CofE is that it is far too easy to find a pretext to opt out of the regular structures, and opt for some sort of alternative oversight, and these alternative systems are full of loopholes that abusers exploit.

Jonathan Fletcher did it at Emmanuel Wimbledon, and it makes my blood boil. I was part of that church for a decade and gave so much time and money to them.

Cma1988 · 23/05/2023 22:38

LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 14:41

Yes I remember the tenancy to think church was a "special case" or different. And also assumed "x wouldn't happen here" as there was the feeling you knew each other really well.

We'd also point to certain churches and say "well we're not like x because yz" and distance ourselves. Ultimately everything we were doing was For God and therefore overruled everything....

As for working for a church. Never again! I was initially employed mon-fri but needed Sunday (didn't get a day off in leiu like the pastors) and expected to answer work related queries etc. I co-led the evening congregation... and obvious midweek stuff that goes with the territory (house groups, leaders meetings...) so unhealthy. But it's "for the Lord!". Sigh.

I also used to work for the church. Never ever again.
I took a career break from child-protection social work due to the pressure and my mental health, and a job at my church came up and was offered to me. Great, I thought….
i lasted 8 months. In that time sadly I was treated very unfairly. I saw a lot of things - not safeguarding things but other not-so-good things covered up and hushed up. A lot of manipulation. Frequent gaslighting. A lot of abuse of power. Sexism and obvious favouritism of certain people and families in the church. I ended up falling out with one of the senior leaders (and they all then hanged up against me) and basically being thrown under the bus. It actually really affected my faith in the church and my trust of my pastor and the leaders. It took me around 6 months before I could return to the church again, and even now it’s still painful with certain triggers.

I ended up returning to frontline social work. My mental health is actually better than it was when I worked for the church.

disclamer: I’m not against God - I’m still a Christian, and I know he is healing my hurt and helping me to forgive them, but my relationship with the church has really suffered. I can’t look at them or trust them the same way now that I know what goes on behind closed doors in the church office Monday to Friday.

Spck · 24/05/2023 20:53

@Cma1988 I have had the same experience working in an office within a C of E church - not safeguarding but treated really badly from an HR point of view. Truly awful place to work, and really a feeling of pushing office staff around as if they didn't really count for anything. Left for a secular job where I had much better conditions and respect and personal development.

PopcorningLikeAHappyGuineaPig · 24/05/2023 21:34

LotsOfBalloons · 23/05/2023 14:13

I've just remembered the "biblical manhood and womanhood" book by piper and grudem. Full on complementarity viewpoint with women submissive...

Don't get me started on Bill Gothard or The Transformed Wife (Lori Alexander). Bleurghhh!

OrwellianTimes · 24/05/2023 22:17

I also worked for a Church, not CofE but charismatic. Not connected to Soul Survivor, definitely considered ourselves better. It took me a long time to recover. Looking back there was so much that was a mess. Crazy long hours, often 7 days a week. Crap pay, if you got paid, which was pretty rare or very very late. Was never spiritual enough. Got told I wasn’t praying like I meant it. Male pastor used to go around giving everyone massages in word and prayer meetings and if you got one it meant you were doing well spiritually. You’d only get that if you’d connected with God properly. Looking back what the hell!!

DH also worked for a church and I’m not over it, it’s very very raw. Such a toxic environment. He was constantly pulled to pieces, told he didn’t have enough faith, he needed to read the word more. His boss the pastor wouldn’t follow covid protocols, wouldn’t follow safeguarding guidelines, and was playing a bit too fast and loose with finances and for sure was making financial decisions that massively benefited himself.

I grew up in CofE churches. I used to go to soul survivor every year. A dear friend was an intern there, and I think unrelated to MP their life is a mess and it’s devastating to see.

I love God, but I feel so so lost right now.

Fizbosshoes · 24/05/2023 22:33

Both the churches I have been to most recently (I don't go any more) were very clear they believed you should not have relationships with/marry a non believer.
In a women's group I was in they were discussing how important it was for their children to find Christian partners. I said the most important thing for me was that my children were happy. Most were aghast. The idea was better to be unhappy and single than in a relationship with a non Christian. I think that was a turning (away) point for me

woodhill · 25/05/2023 18:20

Fizbosshoes · 24/05/2023 22:33

Both the churches I have been to most recently (I don't go any more) were very clear they believed you should not have relationships with/marry a non believer.
In a women's group I was in they were discussing how important it was for their children to find Christian partners. I said the most important thing for me was that my children were happy. Most were aghast. The idea was better to be unhappy and single than in a relationship with a non Christian. I think that was a turning (away) point for me

I know

MrsJamin · 05/06/2023 23:31

Another article has been released, a teenage boy was wrestling in a field with Mike at Soul Survivor festival, rather than the church. Is it too much of a stretch to think that mike ran the festival to find boys to his liking, to invite them to be an intern at his church? This is so disturbing that it went on so long and so many people in prominent positions knew. 😕

Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?
ErrolTheDragon · 05/06/2023 23:42

Here's a sharetoken link for that piece which should be easier to read than the photo.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-first-reported-2004-inappropriate-behaviour-5brvp6jsr?shareToken=0b9de52891cd3628fd53de1686c56fbb

Natsku · 06/06/2023 07:42

This definitely needs an outside investigation. Infuriating that they've known for 20 years and did nothing, of course they can't be trusted to investigate now.

BadSkiingMum · 06/06/2023 17:49

Oh crikey, I have just seen that Times article - so many people going on the record and saying that those within the leadership structure knew...🙁

BadSkiingMum · 06/06/2023 17:49

Try this link too:

BadSkiingMum · 06/06/2023 17:49

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.06.03-234336/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-first-reported-2004-inappropriate-behaviour-5brvp6jsr" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Church knew for 19 years of Soul Survivor pastor’s ‘teen massages’ (archive.ph)

Welcome to nginx

https://archive.ph/2023.06.03-234336/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-first-reported-2004-inappropriate-behaviour-5brvp6jsr

BadSkiingMum · 06/06/2023 17:57

MrsJamin · 05/06/2023 23:31

Another article has been released, a teenage boy was wrestling in a field with Mike at Soul Survivor festival, rather than the church. Is it too much of a stretch to think that mike ran the festival to find boys to his liking, to invite them to be an intern at his church? This is so disturbing that it went on so long and so many people in prominent positions knew. 😕

It is probably fair to say that that the runaway success of the festivals - on the face of it they look like very successful events! - would naturally have drawn many young people towards Soul Survivor Watford church. So then there would have been an inevitable flow of young people wanting to get involved, do gap year programmes, internships, work for the organisation...

emmeline8228 · 06/06/2023 18:04

https://twitter.com/samhowson/status/1666062941483937793?t=Y9EGm3PoybLTisdFv0uXFA&s=19

Sam Howson is going ahead with his documentary. He called me last week, great guy and the premise is not to bash Mike but more to understand people's experiences and for voices to be heard. Get in touch with him via his twitter if you want to share your own experiences around Soul Survivor or Mike Pilavachi

https://twitter.com/samhowson/status/1666062941483937793?s=19&t=Y9EGm3PoybLTisdFv0uXFA