Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?

[Coffeeandcards]

You might want to read this if so:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/12/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-charity-watchdog/

Well, the other weekend I went to Big Church Festival and felt quite conflicted, wary even, at some events, particularly worship. I felt on my guard the whole time about being manipulated by the lighting, music etc since reading this thread and doing some deep thinking about my teen experiences in the 80s/90s.

At the final event there was an altar call, which I felt they did fairly responsibly, pointing out it wasn’t an emotional reaction but a serious decision. I say fairly because there was no after support but maybe given what we’ve discussed on this thread that is much better coming from a local church.

My teenager commented that it wasn’t as bad as I’d prepped her for - driving there I had mentioned a few things I had seen in the past which didn’t sit well with me and also advised her about how a crowd can react if led. So she was happy and I was pleased that nothing concerning happened.

I think I went with a maturity I didn’t have back then and maybe more of a questioning mind. I enjoyed it but didn’t feel I fully belonged to that type of gathering anymore.

I'm still really surprised by it.

As I mentioned earlier, Mike was the head of our church youth group for a while and I spent quite a lot of time with him, both at his house and camps away. He was definitely doing the I'm cool and in with the kids thing but not in a creepy way and not towards the boys.

Clearly that all changed.

I would definitely feel uncomfortable with that kind of event with the knowledge and maturity I have now. About 11 years or so ago I went to some evangelical event my ex in-laws took me too and I felt so uncomfortable, completely different to how I felt as a teenager. I would have walked out if I wasn't reliant on getting a lift back.

Can understand being surprised when you haven't seen any creepiness yourself.

Nataku yes me too. There's no way on earth I'd go to church big day out or nay mass worship event. All the "names" and "bands."

I can remember loving that kind of thing though years ago and well aware lots of people still do! Hence it being popular.

Two new articles out today

More than 100 people come forward to accuse Christian ‘cult’ leader Mike Pilavachi of abuse (telegraph.co.uk)

Andy Croft, who is the son of the Bishop of Oxford, the Rt Revd Dr Steven Croft, and Ali Martin, the church’s assistant pastor, led Soul Survivor Watford after Rev Canon Pilavachi’s suspension last month. However, it can now be reported that both have been suspended “over the handling of allegations” regarding Rev Canon Pilavachi. It is believed that they failed to act on reports of abuse that were raised before the NST investigation was launched.

Mike Pilavachi Soul Survivor replacements suspended over failure to act on abuse claims (telegraph.co.uk)

Any chance you could give a summary of the articles as they are behind a pay wall

Wow.

If you click the link then quickly click "Airport mode" on your phone you can sometimes see the article.

I've just read it and they've suspected Andy croft and Ali someone Assistant pastor around issues of handling safeguarding concerns.

Genuinely surprised but pleased it is all now being taken seriously.

I still think it just became an acceptable norm in those circles and people in church world tend to all see each other as doing God's work so can't possibly be wrong. Without realising the real harm it can cause.

Out of nothing but curiosity I'd love to know matt redmans take on the whole thi g. Or if his silence since was complicit.

Suspended not suspected. Silly phone.

Here's a cut and paste of the article...

Two vicars drafted in to cover Soul Survivor’s Mike Pilavachi who was suspended after accusations of abuse have themselves been suspended over allegations they failed to act on those claims.
Rev Canon Mike Pilavachi, 65, founded the Soul Survivor Watford church and its youth festivals of the same name, which ran from 1993 to 2019 and attracted around 30,000 teenagers from around the world each summer.
He was unmasked by this newspaper last month as victims and former Soul Survivor staff members came forward to speak out the first time about his alleged abuse.
As a result of the allegations, Rev Canon Pilavachi was suspended from Soul Survivor Watford while the Church of England’s National Safeguarding Team (NST) and the Diocese of St Albans carry out an investigation into the allegations.
Andy Croft, who is the son of the Bishop of Oxford, the Rt Revd Dr Steven Croft, and Ali Martin, the church’s assistant pastor, led Soul Survivor Watford after Rev Canon Pilavachi’s suspension last month. However, it can now be reported that both have been suspended “over the handling of allegations” regarding Rev Canon Pilavachi. It is believed that they failed to act on reports of abuse that were raised before the NST investigation was launched.
Earlier this year, The Telegraph published claims that Pilavachi ran “a cult” in which a “conveyor belt” of attractive young men – usually around aged 18 to 21 – were encouraged to receive full-body oil massages on his bed, engage in vigorous wrestling matches and endure psychological torment and spiritual abuse.
The Telegraph revealed yesterday that more than 100 people have come forward to accuse Pilavachi of abuse, with sources also saying that the complaints range from the 1980s to the present day.
A spokesperson for Soul Survivor Watford said: After receiving new information from the National Safeguarding Team (NST) investigation into Mike Pilavachi, the non-staff trustees of Soul Survivor Watford have decided to suspend two members of staff under HR processes: senior pastor, Andy Croft and assistant pastor, Ali Martin.
“The information submitted to the investigation relates to concerns over the handling of allegations that were raised before the NST investigation began.”
Ongoing investigationWhile the investigation into the allegations surrounding them continues, Soul Survivor Watford will be led by Rev Jon Stevens, its executive pastor, with support from Rev Canon Tim Lomax.
The spokesperson added: “We are thankful to all those who have proactively shared their concerns with the NST and recognise that each of them has shown great courage in sharing their experiences.
“If you would like to speak to anyone regarding this investigation, please be assured that any concerns raised will be treated with the utmost sensitivity and appropriate support can be given.”
Responding to the announcement, Dr Beverley Friend, who worked at Soul Survivor from 2001 to 2004 as a marketing manager, said: “So many people have said consistently since this broke that there are countless others in positions of leadership who knew, and had safeguarding responsibilities particularly within Soul Survivor Watford, and have been complicit through their silence. These suspensions show there is so much more to this, and these suspensions should not in any way deter the campaign for an independent investigation.”
A Church of England spokesperson said: Soul Survivor Watford Trustees have announced today the suspension under HR processes of two serving members of staff following information submitted to the investigation into Mike Pilavachi which is being run jointly by the diocese of St Albans and the NST, according to House of Bishops guidance.
“This information relates to the handling of allegations and concerns raised in the Mike Pilavachi case and we cannot say anymore while this new strand of investigation runs its course.
“The Bishop of St Albans has requested that the senior pastor voluntarily withdraw from any ministry until the investigation is concluded. Support is being offered to all those involved.”

Andy Croft's father is Bishop of Oxford who was involved in some dodgy cover ups himself

Oh fgs. Declined to discipline... what is Wrong with all these people that think they're above the law/ethics.

I am an original soul survivor attendee, not just there in ‘93 - but also at the youth village at New Wine ‘92 - which was the trial run.

I loved it at a young person but now I have seen how ego centric this kind of stuff is - and how leaders re-in force their specialness. It’s a world I am glad I am not part of any more.

I remember New Wine too. And something similar around 1990.

My main memories are mucking around caravans with my friend and trying to land a boyfriend. Neither of which I suspect were the intended objectives.

Looking back, our church youth group went on loads of away camps, some externally run and others just for us. They were quite intense.

I went to momentum twice. Momentum was the 'older' version of soul survivor, so 18+ I think? There was definitely an age limit.

I loved it the first time, I didn't love it the second time. The difference was I was a very vulnerable older teen who had been sexually assaulted between the 2 times I went and my dad had died as well. So I went when I was very vulnerable, my mum thought it might help me 'reconnect' with church

I went to a session on trauma thinking it would give me a basis to start healing, in fact it was a session held in a huge room with close to 200 young adults, all of whom had clearly gone to hell and back, it was a 2 hour long session that started with the leader talking about how her daughter died at 2, and how she got through it.

She then invited everyone in the room all 200 of us, to close our eyes and relive the traumatic experiences that had brought us there and give it to God. It was horrific.

It honestly was the worst thing I could have done, it didn't help at all (obviously) and then all of a sudden we had to leave the room because it was time for evening worship in the big top.

There was no after care, no 'maybe don't do this if you don't feel like it will help' just a room full of wailing and screaming teenagers reliving trauma.

WTF?? It's insane now as an actual adult that that was even contemplated.

I actually went to a talk about marriage at momentum (equally weird) and it was run by Mike pilavachi and Ali Martin. He actually said the words I can't really talk about sex before or after marriage because I've not had sex with anything be it, animal, vegetable or mineral and then handed it over to Ali Martin who told us all good women to wait upon Jesus and we'd find a husband.

It was such a bizarre few days and no it didn't bring me back to church.

@CoachBeardsJane I am so so sorry that happened to you, it sounds horrific. Especially after what you had already suffered. Sending unmumsnetty hugs x

This sounds so traumatic. I hope that you have been able to work through it in other ways xx

@emmeline8228 and @FluffyCat17 yes i did work through it thankfully! It's a long time ago now, and it's a really bad idea especially with no aftercare, I do wonder wtf they were thinking?

I hadn't even thought about it til I saw that article in the paper. Crazy what we think is 'normal' Isn't it?

Absolutely crazy! My experience is no where near as extreme as that, but I have found myself in counselling now since this story first dropped as it has really affected me, looking back at the situations I was in, now with adult eyes it is not comfortable at all.

Yes so true. I've been dealing with some childhood trauma in counselling and until you'd said id forgotten the general church approach when I was in church and the focus on forgiveness. I spent so long getting in knots about forgiving parents when actually I should have had support to get out of an abusive situation.

And similarly the emphasis in that world on coming to the front, a quick prayer and God brings deep healing.... well what if it doesn't? Healing may need intensive cou selling not a quick prayer and an expectation "God heals."

@CoachBeardsJane Ugh, how utterly horrible. :( That session on trauma sounds like it was an absolute disaster, and I dread to think how many poor kids had to go home from that in absolute pieces, with no-one there to look after them or understand what had happened.

Sadly, hardcore charismatic Christians like this will dump any sensible scientific or rational thought on this stuff, and dismiss any concerns, because they think God is big enough just to deal with it all. Unfortunately, if God doesn't miraculously heal you from all your traumas, you'll get the blame for it, for not having enough faith. That's another trauma in itself, right there, guaranteed to shred your self-image even further. :(

The only significant trauma in my life is religious trauma.

It’s so amazing to connect with you all. I have such mixed feelings about it all. One one hand it was the highlight of my teenage life. For the ‘weird’ Christian kid to feel apart of something and accepted and have a group of friends..and yet it took for me to become 42/43 before I woke up. Interestingly, even though I have been involved in church until relatively recently- I was careful to not encourage my children in any of it. I did not want them to have an upbringing like mine. I don’t think it promoted a healthy regard for yourself.

Matt Redman was one of the first people to make a statement about this. There's an excellent timeline available if you Google 'God Loves Women The Soul Survivor Situation Timeline'. This is the direct link: https://mrsglw.wordpress.com/2023/05/14/the-soul-survivor-situation-a-timeline/ I am checking it and this thread weekly as they are both very enlightening.
Best wishes.

Yes I saw his statement earlier on which is why we can't find out more while investigations are taking place.

But as someone posted on that twitter...

*either he knew and said nothing over 20 years.

Or didn't know?

Yes it's good he says he supports anyone hurting.

Wow. That timeline looks like a lot of work to put together- and this mumsnet thread gets a mention.

….I remember at New Wine ‘90 although it could have been ‘91 Matt Redman leading worship and then telling us his story…a heart breaking story that made him so vulnerable and he seemed to have such a strong bond with MP…