Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?

[Coffeeandcards]

You might want to read this if so:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/12/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-charity-watchdog/

I've been trying to find out about this online but can't find anything. Is this C of E? Do you have a link?

I am not going to link because it directly identifies someone that I have been talking about on here.

Church accounts are online and there are tabled sections where there are potential conflicts of interest highlighted. It’s in there.

You will need to go through the online accounts of several London churches. If I can find one not linked to anything I have posted on here I will post it but I am short on time today.

Yes it’s C of E and linked to HTB.

It was under this.

https://twitter.com/revmarkhew/status/1658229160588849154?s=46&t=oe6Lr-bMkSpnC5WBu8BQOw

another good thread.

Just wanted to comment on the ‘safe’ aspect of soul survivor and the like, further upthread. I’m similarly conflicted - yes it was safe and for many years I thought thank goodness I was so into it in my teenage years. It meant I was ‘protected’ in lots of ways, had lovely friends a good social life, a purpose, a sense of being part of something.
But now looking back, it left me with massive issues about sex. I ended up getting married far too young and too quickly because we were ‘waiting’ until we got married. I stayed in an unhappy and unhealthy marriage far too long because I believed I had no choice and the bible said divorce was only ‘okay’ in certain circumstances - I spent many years WISHING my husband would have an affair so it would be ‘ok’ to leave him as per the bible.

I left him last year btw partly triggered/as part of a deconstruction of my faith and seeing it all with fresh eyes

@LotsOfBalloons an interested in St Aldates references - are you referring to ML?

arriving at this thread late. Thank you everyone for sharing. Feeling similarly unsettled and saddened and revisiting a lot of what I think about events like these, manipulation etc. I think the problem is that we’re human and we get messed up with our humanising of things - ie the hero worshipping and celebritising. I say that as someone who was visable in another well-known Christian festival for a few years and if I’m completely honest, I loved the recognition! Terrible I know. But something innate.

btw in terms of the clergy school discount / housing situ. As someone who was a clergy kid growing up, the ‘perk’ of the free housing didn’t make up for all the other shittiness of life-invasion of living with someone in ministry. (Plus it was run down and contributed to terrible financial planning. Plus clergy stipend is shit.) anyway, I don’t want to bemoan them that.

Indeed, our free house was always filled with people so many times I had to sleep on the sofa or an airbed on the floor downstairs, once, memorably, in the conservatory in winter (I didn't actually mind so much because I liked having various people staying with us but my brothers might have minded)

The free house can be a huge burden. I've had to apply for hardship grants to heat the barn of a place I live in this winter. Just to have the heating on for a few hours a day has been crippling. Partnered clergy may have a second wage coming in but not all do and single clergy certainly don't. My children had to put up with living in a goldfish bowl where everyone knows who you are and how they expect you to behave. Also the aggressive callers at the door who get angry when you won't pay their Airbnb hotel bills or their train fare to see their dying granny in Glasgow are a feature of parish life that all clergy will deal with. I've been woken up at 2am by a homeless man whose tent had been stolen. He had my spare duvet and a cup of tea and slept in the church car park I think.

I'm not on Twitter as the anger and contempt that female clergy face there is more than I'm able to deal with. I absolutely love my job. It isn't easy.

Absolutely non of this excuses the safeguarding failures. Hopefully survivors will be listened to this time.

Source is https://www.london.anglican.org/download/stipend-scales-removal-grants-fees-2018/?wpdmdl=36124&refresh=6464973ec702f1684313918&ind=1681729066522&filename=Stipend-scales-2023.pdf

I disagree that the stipend is a poor amount. This is what they get after everything else is paid. No housing costs, water, council tax, pension, NI and a proportion of heating. Travel expenses and entertainment allowances.

No one is saying they are millionaires but if you are living in London with a vicarage and school fees paid for by the clergy bursary fund, use of wealthy parishioners holiday homes and free transport for your children on TFL, it’s not poverty.

Children of police, the local GP and politicians etc also live their lives in a goldfish bowl. This is not specific to clergy.

I do wonder if some don’t realise how badly other people struggle with normal jobs, housing and bills to pay. People who don’t get removals costs and re settlement grants and who rent. Having to move children every year because the landlord sells up or they can’t afford the rent.

I am talking about the stable of HTB churches with Mike and the Gumbels closely linked. I don’t know about churches outside of this and I have no doubt it’s a much less luxurious lifestyle and a struggle.

@mostlydrinkstea totally agree with you about how the women clergy are treated on Twitter. I follow some of them and they are strong women who are leading the way in demanding any abuse is exposed. It’s very depressing to see the veiled threats against them for speaking out.

2k a month after housing, pension, council tax and most bills How many people have that?

If the partner works and they are on a similar salary (which some are as senior lay preachers) that’s 4K a month after bills.

I don’t begrudge them any of that but can we stop pretending that these are poverty stricken ‘poor as church mice’ types?

I think its an oft repeated narrative that it's a poor stipend that's repeated in church leader circles that they believe it and forget what it is like for normal people. Or they compare themselves to v wealthy people in similar houses to themselves. I didn't realise it was as much as 28k 😮. That AFTER all expenses is actually great. And pension too.

But anyway we're detracting from the main thread. Apologies.

@LotsOfBalloons it’s relevant I think as it’s all about the image and (some of them) portraying themselves in a way that’s not accurate or honest. Which in turn leads to problems within the church and lack of openness.

When you have parishioners in poverty /students tithing 10% to support much wealthier clergy, I find that wrong.

One of the victims has been sent messages from the Alpha leader from HTB, he was threatened about speaking to the secular press. A lot of them don’t like the light being shone on them for various reasons.

https://twitter.com/davidgate/status/1658108772009619463?s=46&t=oe6Lr-bMkSpnC5WBu8BQOw

Oh that is really bad, that poor man.
Abusers and those that cover up abuse never like these things coming to light but you'd think they'd have the sense to not try and intimidate victims into keeping quiet once its come to light.

Powerful people are desperate to shut the victims up here, and are resorting to some very intimidating tactics. It's all grossly hypocritical, though - Soul Survivor loves publicity when it suits them.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

I'm interested in what you're saying about the whole celebrity factor - how it almost went to your head.

A big auditorium of bright-eyed teens clapping along and hanging on every word, that surely gives someone too much power.

This is an interesting tweet/video:

Sam Howson on Twitter

He paid how much for a six month course (internship?) twenty-five years ago?
If anyone knows Sam's current role I would be interested, as it sounds like he might be in a media type role.

I did a year out with a similar organisation in 1992 and it cost me three grand.

Very interesting video. I hope he does make a film about it. People need to have a platform and the church need to hear the honest truth of people's experiences

Hmm. I used to be a vicar...now in a non parish job. Never got utility bills paid or an entertainment allowance or school fees ...
Absolutely not badly paid ...I get fed up of colleagues who moan... But no fancy extras... Stipend and what the rent would cost in most places is about the same as a reasonably experienced teacher . Obvs posh placer usually nicer house ...but I never worked in posh places lol.

Relate to so much of this...
The vast majority of clergy are not swanning round west London on the backs of the giving of the faithful...thank god!

Really grateful to people for sharing experiences on here. I hung round in the NW SS world in the early 90s and am grateful my life took me up the candle and to other places ... My work brings me into contact with a lot of people who are damaged by this whole culture that now makes me deeply discomfited.