Have you or your kids been to Soul Survivor?

[Coffeeandcards]

You might want to read this if so:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/12/mike-pilavachi-soul-survivor-charity-watchdog/

Oh wow that must be an interesting to place to be to have "been there" and now hearing others stories.

I've had quite a wide experience within church world/vicar factory/ charismatic circles but bizarrely didn't realise until this thread that so many of us were damaged by that world looking back. This has been really helpful aside from MP but reflecting on the culture and the damage it can do. Of course lots of people who came through would say it spurred them on in faith/they became vicars etc. too.

I havent yet read but want to at some point Vicky Beechings book about the pressure she was under as a gay worship leader in that world. For all its belief they "welcome people where they are" the subtle "but don't stay as you are/conform" undertone is horrible.

May I ask a question to anyone who grew up in this environment: what was the view of family or friends who were non-believers?

I have heard it said that Christian young people could not have a boyfriend or girlfriend outside the church.

For anyone who is interested: the webinar by God Loves Women is on tonight. Details on Twitter or Eventbrite.

@LotsOfBalloons Vicky Beeching's book is fascinating but horrifying. She's suffered enormously and her health has been completely destroyed by what she's been through. I'm amazed she still identifies as Christian.

If you go on any book review site, you'll see loads of one-star reviews from hardcore Christians who gleefully tell her she's going to Hell.

@BadSkiingMum Absolutely correct. As well as a bunch of horrific hangups about sex that can scar you for life, dating a non-believer is absolutely forbidden in the sort of church culture we're discussing here.

My church was very clear that it wasn’t a good thing to have a boyfriend or girlfriend who wasn’t also a Christian. Probably had to be the right sort of Christian as well. Don’t think it was a ‘rule’ but we knew their views.

There was a point where pretty much my whole social life revolved round church. And then at uni it was the same with the Christian Union. I was always a bit of an outsider because I’d go straight from CU meetings on a Saturday night to catch my friends in the union bar. That wasn’t ‘the done thing’

I'm speechless and slightly shocked to see this thread.

Mike was the leader of the youth groups at our local church and I spent quite a lot of time in his company (and at his house) as a teenager.

FWIW, he came across as a really nice and genuine guy, at least to us as teenagers. Clearly there was a bigger picture reading the article.

@NotEspeciallyHappyValley Oh, yeah - it wasn't necessarily a rule, but dating anyone from either outside Christianity or outside the particular type of church was massively frowned upon when I was younger, and you'd be under enormous social pressure not to do it.

I know what you mean about CUs as well. I didn't properly understand what they were like, or the obnoxious motives of UCCF, when I got involved as a student, and sadly I think it kept me stuck in the world of Christian extremism for far longer than I would have spent in it otherwise.

As for CUs meeting on Saturdays - that's a blatant attempt to keep you on the straight and narrow! At least mine met on a Wednesday!

My church wasn't like that about boyfriends/girlfriends who weren't Christian, I think based on the hope that you'd bring your non-religious partner to church and they'd get converted. Non-religious friends were always welcomed to our youth group as well, one came with us to SS once actually.

The sex hangups was a thing though for sure, I remember one talk we were given was comparing gluing pieces of paper together to sex, as in if you glue a piece of paper to another its fine and strong but if you then unstick it and glue it to another, then unstick and glue again and so on and so forth then it would eventually be torn to pieces and that's supposed to be what happens to us (spiritually? emotionally? I can't remember) if we sleep around rather than get married and only have sex with one person ever

@grass321 Sadly I'm not shocked at all. With this form of extreme charismatic evangelicalism, abuse isn't a bug, it's a feature.

Slightly split loyalties as my parents are still at the same church (I'm an atheist now). But it's reduced the overt evangelism over the years.

Genuinely, Mike came across as a really nice guy to us as teenagers. Clearly had bigger plans that just leading the youth group at our church but charismatic and good at engaging with young people.

None of the above condones the activities reported on in the Telegraph which are completely unacceptable, particularly for a person in a position of responsibility.

@Natsku Did you get some seriously condemnatory nonsense about masturbation as well?

Can't actually remember any discussion about masturbation

I've only skim read the thread, I didn't see a link to the piece in the 'secular press' about this guy

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/93e00a9e-f17f-11ed-8f35-c0a8d2f1b215?shareToken=9ce6311fd08f1a175c4d28903c319720

Of course they were happy for your non-Christian friends coming along to meetings - they were a perfect opportunity to convert them!
I wonder if they were as happy for you to attend their social gatherings?

We did. Even an altar call for those afflicted to come forward and to be prayed over.

Yup it was completely expected you would either meet someone at church/uni CU or possibly bring someone along and convert them. There was a complete belief that if they just came to church enough and heard the message they'd want to join to.

And yes to it being your whole social circle and world so realistically you did see older girls go out with /marry older boys in the same circles and it was just the norm. I guess a bit like if your life revolves around a hobby ypu might want to meet someone that shares that hobby.

And paranoia about "getting it wrong " or accidently going too far with a boyfriend (thanks Steve chalk and lessons in love..
) and all the books on relationships that we lapped up at the time. Really most people wanted a partner also "on fire for god!" The worship leaders/curates etc were super desirable...

And yes it wasnt just "christian". There were discussions about whether RCs were "really Christian" and different flavours of Christianity that were branded extreme/fundamentalist or too "liberal". Oh looking back....

I remember having non Christian boyfriends was something we were all told wasn't a good idea but I had a few and I wasn't judged. Our church youth group was mainly girls and some of the girls from nearby churches were quite possessive over "their" boys. So quite a few of us treated soul survivor as an opportunity to meet boys.

Dating was the primary reason I stayed in Sunday School as a teenager. My parents are still gutted I only lasted one week dating a very square son of their churchy friends (who were both doctors so added points).

It was quite a good pool to fish on occasions (just not that one). I also remember us harassing our poor Sunday school teacher about where 'petting' crossed the line (he went bright red every time).

They weren't fussed about us going to non-religious stuff, I think my church wasn't that bad really in that sense, or then I tuned out any fuss without noticing.

I was still a Christian when I started Uni, having just attended my last SS event..shortly after joining I met a guy who wasn't a Christian and we starting going out. Someone who I had just met om the CU told me that God didn't want me to be with him because he wasn't a believer and we were not meant to be together. I stopped being her friend immediately. We're now 20 years married, with 3 kids so...wonder what she would think of that now. I hated all the judgy opinions of it all, which was a massive reason I walked away and it was only in later years that I've reflected on how manipulative and damaging these environments were to me

Yes I had similar

We've been married 30+ years

Minister refused to marry us as I shouldn't be misyoked to an unbeliever so we married elsewhere

All this stuff about petting and sex, which messed a lot of us up for a long time, is it in the Bible? Is that what they mean by fornication?

Oh yes. Messed up my first relationship... and that's a story I've heard a few times over 😔.

Of course some are going great and still in that world so wouldn't see the problem.

I have been watching and following this thread with interest. It has been really interesting and helpful. The news about MP was disturbing and shocking for sure. I remember being mesmerised by him at SS.

But for me, this is the first time I have realised that I have not suffered alone following my departure from the church.

I have spent years and years suffering emotionally and psychologically following being raised in this environment. Since I ‘escaped’ and rejected it as nonsense and embraced atheism, I have faced huge backlash from family and friends who to this day still judge me for living a sinful life with no morals or values. And I still have warped views and screwed up relationships with sex, intimacy, masturbation, relationships, religion etc etc. I still experience guilt even though my head knows it’s ridiculous.

I have questioned for many years if it was a cult or mass hypnosis or brainwashing or manipulation or something else but my husband and friends find it hard to make sense of and even believe some of my stories. So to read about others experiences which mirror mine and resonate so closely to what I lived through in my childhood and in my teens has been oddly comforting and also sad that so many of us had to go through this.

Yes robo I've found it's been similarly helpful to realise we're not alone. And to have a space we can talk about this without people judging or trying to reconvert us or not understanding. (I agree my school mum friends would just day "why????" Would you do xyz...