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For demanding daughter to stop seeing satanist friend

124 replies

FaithRose · 21/03/2023 01:24

My daughter "Haily" is in her 2nd year of college. She lives with me and commutes, but was talking about getting an apartment next to the school with a friend, "Vicky," as a roommate. Vicky has visited a handful of times. The last time she told me that she's a satanist. So I asked her if she's a member of TST. I was just trying to keep the conversation going and be polite. She said no because she's a theistic and spiritual satanist! We've always been a Christian family, and I think I could handle my daughter being friends with an atheist satanist, since it's just atheism anyway, but theistic is a whole different can of hellish worms. I told Haily that I don't want her hanging around Vicky anymore. While she hasn't come over again I think they're still hanging out at school and after. I questioned her about this and she blew up at me. I can already tell that Vicky has started to influence her as she's been dressing a little edgy and and in a lot of black, which she didn't before college. I don't want her to move in with Vicky and eventually become a satanist! As of now though, is it unreasonable of me to tell her who she can't be friends with while she's still living under my roof? Any advice on what I should do?

OP posts:
AnorLondo · 21/03/2023 01:25

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AffIt · 21/03/2023 01:28

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Rinkydinkydoodle · 21/03/2023 01:32

Is there a genuine safety concern? And where’s the relevance in the a/theistic part? Like…do theistic Satanists encourage harm, and atheistic Satanists don’t? Or is it that the latter it’s more extreme/offensive to your sensibilities?

Yarboosucks · 21/03/2023 01:48

Don't worry about it, the Belgian wolves will be here soon so Satanist college students will be the least of your problems

FaithRose · 21/03/2023 02:00

Rinkydinkydoodle · 21/03/2023 01:32

Is there a genuine safety concern? And where’s the relevance in the a/theistic part? Like…do theistic Satanists encourage harm, and atheistic Satanists don’t? Or is it that the latter it’s more extreme/offensive to your sensibilities?

Both. But yes it's offensive to my beliefs, and I don't want my daughter going down that path. However, theistic satanism as a whole is a bit nuts. There's different types (I studied religion in college and that's how this convo with her started), but some are more extreme in action and beliefs than others, and some are cultish. For some examples, a couple branches get into neo nazi stuff, and at least one praises suicide as the best type of death as it's your own choice on when to go. There's so much more to this (not that crazy conspiracy stuff), but it can be looked into by anyone. I dont want to type a bunch out as I just have my phone right now. I just don't want her at risk at all. I'm worried she'll fall for this stuff herself, or become a victim. There's also fake "gurus" who trick young women.

OP posts:
SunshineGeorgie · 21/03/2023 02:04

Your daughter will do as she likes

How old? Teenager?

Let her get on with it

Justmeandthedog1 · 21/03/2023 02:10

FaithRose · 21/03/2023 02:00

Both. But yes it's offensive to my beliefs, and I don't want my daughter going down that path. However, theistic satanism as a whole is a bit nuts. There's different types (I studied religion in college and that's how this convo with her started), but some are more extreme in action and beliefs than others, and some are cultish. For some examples, a couple branches get into neo nazi stuff, and at least one praises suicide as the best type of death as it's your own choice on when to go. There's so much more to this (not that crazy conspiracy stuff), but it can be looked into by anyone. I dont want to type a bunch out as I just have my phone right now. I just don't want her at risk at all. I'm worried she'll fall for this stuff herself, or become a victim. There's also fake "gurus" who trick young women.

I can see how a lot of that would be worrying.
Trouble with teenagers is the more you hate something, the more they embrace it. If your dislike of her friend’s beliefs pushes her away from you, you won’t know what is going on.

dudsville · 21/03/2023 02:15

There are "fake gurus" in every religion, and cults, etc., i understand wanting your daughter to be safe and well, but forbidding something isn't the answer. It will close down conversations and create distance.

Avarua2 · 21/03/2023 02:43

Oh boy. They'll both grow out of it. Roll your eyes and let them crack on.

echt · 21/03/2023 03:06

The first time I've burst out laughing at a thread title. And again at the OP's OP.

Any cult is problematic, and that's the only issue

Ponderingwindow · 21/03/2023 03:24

Op, the critiques you are listing of theistic satanism apply to other religions as well.

I am not a satanist, but I have always found it odd that the celebrant of free will and knowledge is seen as the villain in the Christian stories.

Simply being friends with someone who follows a different religion is not going to cause your child harm. If she ultimately chooses a different religion than the one you have selected, that is something you must accept. We can’t dictate our children’s beliefs, religious or otherwise. Even before adulthood, they don’t have to conform to our own way of thinking.

Rinkydinkydoodle · 21/03/2023 03:28

FaithRose · 21/03/2023 02:00

Both. But yes it's offensive to my beliefs, and I don't want my daughter going down that path. However, theistic satanism as a whole is a bit nuts. There's different types (I studied religion in college and that's how this convo with her started), but some are more extreme in action and beliefs than others, and some are cultish. For some examples, a couple branches get into neo nazi stuff, and at least one praises suicide as the best type of death as it's your own choice on when to go. There's so much more to this (not that crazy conspiracy stuff), but it can be looked into by anyone. I dont want to type a bunch out as I just have my phone right now. I just don't want her at risk at all. I'm worried she'll fall for this stuff herself, or become a victim. There's also fake "gurus" who trick young women.

I’d try to be conciliatory and say I wanted to talk about with her as any two adults
would. As everyone says, no, you can’t choose for her, and if you decide you can and will, and push too much to stop the friendship it might make her secretive, or worse, more likely to move in with Vicky. But it’s absolutely your role as her mum to a young adult to be a resource, a source of comfort and a support. It’s fortunate you’re familiar enough with the organisation to have not simply treated it as a joke.

Is your daughter already aware of any of the quoted information, or your specific concerns around dangerous messaging (re:suicide)and extremist associations?
How did she respond?

If she were my DD I wouldn’t treat this differently from any other concerning influence; I’d lay out what was worrying me, without personalising it to Vicky, using a few select pieces of the most credible, independent source material I could find, ie. not a repudiation by the church, or anything similar, good investigative journalism from broadsheet newspaper articles, reputable academic journals, that sort of thing. I’d do that so I could be clear that these are serious points to be considered, not just nasty rumours or religious prejudice; speaking as an atheist (who dresses entirely in black (side note: being edgy in black is not particularly persuasive evidence she’s about to convert to Satanism, she may simply appreciate the aesthetic)) having a child living in a house with someone with these beliefs would potentially concern me too.

I also wouldn’t juxtapose this information against your own religious point of view, or present it as a fait accompli that having considered this information she must stop being friends with Vicky. Haily is an adult and entitled to form her own views and beliefs, just like the rest of us. Vicky is also entitled to her beliefs, however, as with any controversial belief system with some uncomfortable associations, it’s totally feasible you’d have concerns. It might have been easier to either allay/support those concerns if Vicky hadn’t been banned from your house, so maybe that’s worth considering as well.

You seem fairly well informed so hopefully your daughter is of an enquiring mind too, and of strong character. Also, are you totally sure this goes beyond the sartorial? It’s not inevitable that we all follow our friends’ religious beliefs, they’re quite personal, no? What if Vicky has no interest in bringing Haily into her church (do Satanists proselytise?)?

discobrain · 21/03/2023 03:46

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WandaWonder · 21/03/2023 04:03

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DaveyJonesLocker · 21/03/2023 04:15

I've always thought Satan seemed like the better guy even in the Christian bible.

He freed Adam and eve, gave them free will.

He tried to stop Jesus from starving himself to prove himself to his father.

He kinda struck me as a concerned social worker trying to protect kids from an abusive narcissistic father 🤷‍♀️

So YABU I guess, to think as Christians you're above her or she's bad and you're good.

wandawaves · 21/03/2023 04:50

"However, theistic satanism as a whole is a bit nuts."

Equally as nuts as Christianity I guess.

ThreeLocusts · 21/03/2023 04:52

Your adult daughter can choose her own beliefs. And her own friends.

I'm a lone atheist from a religious family. I don't think my mum, who I love dearly, is happy that my children aren't baptised, but she is smart enough to stay out of it.

Nothing she could say would make any difference to my atheism. You'll have to decide if you love your daughter or just your approved Christian version of her.

HopeMumsnet · 21/03/2023 07:03

Hi there,
We have moved your thread to the more relevant topic.

Manybeards · 21/03/2023 07:05

It’s all bollocks

AnorLondo · 21/03/2023 09:47

Why was my post deleted, was it for questioning if the OP is genuine?

Anyway, to repeat. Your daughter is an adult, her friend has a right to her religion. Mind your own business.

Giggorata · 21/03/2023 10:01

It's quite normal for younger people to explore other faiths and philosophies, bonus points if any of them are seen as edgy, are different or oppositional to their parents'; and they can wear black and pose about.

There is a cult checklist somewhere on the internet, and I would keep an eye on things without declaiming Vicky or Satanism, which will probably make it all the more alluring.

Strainzer · 21/03/2023 10:14

You may feel very worried but the solution is not to demand that your daughter unthinkingly obey you - that is the same thinking that underpins cults. Teach her critical thinking skills and help her learn to identify when other people are trying to control or manipulate her.

ShodanLives · 21/03/2023 13:26

I don't want my daughter going down that path.

That's not your choice to make.

Greenfairydust · 21/03/2023 13:55

I don't think that anyone has the right to try to push their own beliefs on someone else.

That applies to your daughter's friend not trying to ''convert'' her into her religion but it also applies to you not expecting your daughter to automatically adopt your Christian beliefs as her own.

You should help your daughter become a confident individual who can make her own choices and apply critical thinking.

I tend to think that most religions are just bad fairy tales of sort that some people need to be less afraid of the world. Fair enough if that helps you feel better about life and death. Unfortunately all that dogma also often turns some of them into judgemental zealots...

Your daughter's friend is a teenager and probably thinks being a ''satanist'' makes her look cool and edgy. She will likely grow out of it soon enough...

SunshineGeorgie · 21/03/2023 17:01

Another fairy tale.....

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