Page 3 | For demanding daughter to stop seeing satanist friend

FaithRose · 2023-03-21T01:24:03+00:00

My daughter "Haily" is in her 2nd year of college. She lives with me and commutes, but was talking about getting an apartment next to the school with a friend, "Vicky," as a roommate. Vicky has visited a handful of times. The last time she told me that she's a satanist. So I asked her if she's a member of TST. I was just trying to keep the conversation going and be polite. She said no because she's a theistic and spiritual satanist! We've always been a Christian family, and I think I could handle my daughter being friends with an atheist satanist, since it's just atheism anyway, but theistic is a whole different can of hellish worms. I told Haily that I don't want her hanging around Vicky anymore. While she hasn't come over again I think they're still hanging out at school and after. I questioned her about this and she blew up at me. I can already tell that Vicky has started to influence her as she's been dressing a little edgy and and in a lot of black, which she didn't before college. I don't want her to move in with Vicky and eventually become a satanist! As of now though, is it unreasonable of me to tell her who she can't be friends with while she's still living under my roof? Any advice on what I should do?

Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 17:52

Rinkydinkydoodle · 21/03/2023 03:28

I’d try to be conciliatory and say I wanted to talk about with her as any two adults
would. As everyone says, no, you can’t choose for her, and if you decide you can and will, and push too much to stop the friendship it might make her secretive, or worse, more likely to move in with Vicky. But it’s absolutely your role as her mum to a young adult to be a resource, a source of comfort and a support. It’s fortunate you’re familiar enough with the organisation to have not simply treated it as a joke.

Is your daughter already aware of any of the quoted information, or your specific concerns around dangerous messaging (re:suicide)and extremist associations?
How did she respond?

If she were my DD I wouldn’t treat this differently from any other concerning influence; I’d lay out what was worrying me, without personalising it to Vicky, using a few select pieces of the most credible, independent source material I could find, ie. not a repudiation by the church, or anything similar, good investigative journalism from broadsheet newspaper articles, reputable academic journals, that sort of thing. I’d do that so I could be clear that these are serious points to be considered, not just nasty rumours or religious prejudice; speaking as an atheist (who dresses entirely in black (side note: being edgy in black is not particularly persuasive evidence she’s about to convert to Satanism, she may simply appreciate the aesthetic)) having a child living in a house with someone with these beliefs would potentially concern me too.

I also wouldn’t juxtapose this information against your own religious point of view, or present it as a fait accompli that having considered this information she must stop being friends with Vicky. Haily is an adult and entitled to form her own views and beliefs, just like the rest of us. Vicky is also entitled to her beliefs, however, as with any controversial belief system with some uncomfortable associations, it’s totally feasible you’d have concerns. It might have been easier to either allay/support those concerns if Vicky hadn’t been banned from your house, so maybe that’s worth considering as well.

You seem fairly well informed so hopefully your daughter is of an enquiring mind too, and of strong character. Also, are you totally sure this goes beyond the sartorial? It’s not inevitable that we all follow our friends’ religious beliefs, they’re quite personal, no? What if Vicky has no interest in bringing Haily into her church (do Satanists proselytise?)?

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Thank you very much for this well thought out post. And thanks to those who left similar posts, and also those who sympathized. I think you guys are right. I'm just going to sit her down for a talk on the dangers of nazis, suicide cults, and pervert gurus, and then leave it, as I don't want to turn her away. I'll also lift the Vicky ban. And then maybe I'll get another chance to warn Vicky about the nazis too. Now that I think about it I'm disappointed I didn't say much after learning she's theistic. After all she's a young women out there and somebody's daughter too.

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pointythings · 23/03/2023 17:57

@FaithRose thing is that the theistic Satanist movement is very fragmented and the neo nazi part of it is only a small aspect. You're absolutely right to talk openly with your DD about your concerns and let's face it, we live in a world where it's important for any young person of any faith background to think critically about what they're exposed to - their own faith and the faith of others. I think you're taking a very sensible line here.

AnorLondo · 23/03/2023 18:10

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 17:52

Thank you very much for this well thought out post. And thanks to those who left similar posts, and also those who sympathized. I think you guys are right. I'm just going to sit her down for a talk on the dangers of nazis, suicide cults, and pervert gurus, and then leave it, as I don't want to turn her away. I'll also lift the Vicky ban. And then maybe I'll get another chance to warn Vicky about the nazis too. Now that I think about it I'm disappointed I didn't say much after learning she's theistic. After all she's a young women out there and somebody's daughter too.

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Yes she's someone's daughter but also an individual in her own right, with a right to her own religion, she doesn't need a lecture from you.

As for "lifting the ban", its ridiculous you think you can dictate who your adult daughter can be friends with.

Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 18:16

Avalavalanche · 22/03/2023 11:29

Your daughter is an adult and you're still trying to control how she dresses?

No. You're reading too much into things. Some people are really running wild here, and perhaps projecting their own issues. I mentioned that as a note on how Vicky has influenced her on at least one thing already. I never told her she couldn't wear something. In fact, I think some of her new outfits are kinda cute. Before college her style was more Steve Urkel. She takes after her dad in many ways, including that. Which doesn't comfort me in this situation considering his reaction.

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OnaBegonia · 23/03/2023 18:25

This has got to be a wind up, Steve Urkel?? 🤣🤣

MermaidEyes · 23/03/2023 18:26

Having googled Steve Urkel, who I've never heard of (not being in the US, where I suspect OP is) I'll take my mainly black wardrobe any day thanks.

Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 18:29

verylarge · 22/03/2023 13:54

I've been involved with Christianity (for a long time) and Satanism (briefly). I'm an atheist now, and I won't get involved with any organised religion again.

Personally I think Christianity has more potential for harm than Satanism. Without getting into the details of why (it's not relevant to this) - if I told my daughter that she couldn't be friends with any Christians because it's a dangerous cult and I don't want her influenced by the scary dangerous Christian people and their silly limiting beliefs, would you think I was being unreasonable (and possibly intolerant)?

Either way, if you try to control your daughter like this you're more likely to push her into engaging with it more (or leading her to create distance from you), and you'll make yourself look hysterical and foolish in the process. Personally I'd leave it.

Since you've identified with both I'd be very interested on your thoughts on the pros, cons, and danger comparisons of Christianity and Satanism (or the 3 of them including atheism?). Perhaps that could be moved to another thread if there's not already one on that? Were you the atheist or theist variety?

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Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 18:38

triforcetotem · 22/03/2023 20:11

@FaithRose

How old is your daughter?

She's 19.

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BishopRock · 23/03/2023 18:39

DaveyJonesLocker · 21/03/2023 04:15

I've always thought Satan seemed like the better guy even in the Christian bible.

He freed Adam and eve, gave them free will.

He tried to stop Jesus from starving himself to prove himself to his father.

He kinda struck me as a concerned social worker trying to protect kids from an abusive narcissistic father 🤷‍♀️

So YABU I guess, to think as Christians you're above her or she's bad and you're good.

There is a field of thought that the entity known as God is actually Satan but petsuaded believers they were God and banished real God by saying they were Satan.

At least Old Testament God/Satan.

Yolo12345 · 23/03/2023 18:46

Maybe her friend is a good laugh! :) Seriously, chill out! I've got friends who believe in god, but it doesn't mean I will ever go down that path. Also friendships come and go...pick your battles. Don't let your daughter see how intolerant you are.

triforcetotem · 23/03/2023 18:48

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 18:38

She's 19.

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So an adult. And you're trying to ban her from seeing her friend.

Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 18:53

fireflown · 23/03/2023 09:17

here's different types (I studied religion in college and that's how this convo with her started), but some are more extreme in action and beliefs than others, and some are cultish. For some examples, a couple branches get into neo nazi stuff, and at least one praises suicide as the best type of death as it's your own choice on when to go.

Does your daugher's friend believe any of this or is it just baseless speculation on your part?

I didn't speculate that she believes in any of that. I hope she doesn't. She never said anything around me that leans towards that to make me suspect anything. I didn't ask what type of philosophy or what theistic group she most closely identifies with, but I should have. Not that it would matter to me either way if Haily were to get involved, as this subject is very much a giant rabbit hole, and just because Vicky doesn't follow a certain group doesn't mean Haily also wouldn't have interest in them. One of the most well known and popular groups is into the nazi stuff (but not explicitly so like some of the others, so they're able to take their innocent followers for a ride). So it's not like it would be hard to stumble across.

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OnaBegonia · 23/03/2023 18:59

I didn't ask what type of philosophy or what theistic group she most closely identifies with, but I should have.
No you shouldn't have, what your adult daughters friend believes in is none of your business.
Your religion/beliefs aren't the only ones that are right/acceptable.
Christianity has been used for centuries to control people by fear and punishment.

DaveyJonesLocker · 23/03/2023 19:01

BishopRock · 23/03/2023 18:39

There is a field of thought that the entity known as God is actually Satan but petsuaded believers they were God and banished real God by saying they were Satan.

At least Old Testament God/Satan.

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I've had the same theory myself!

Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 19:05

OnaBegonia · 23/03/2023 18:25

This has got to be a wind up, Steve Urkel?? 🤣🤣

Nope. She was very into the show Family Matters and grew up watching it, seen all the eps at least twice, and I think Steve is still her fav character of all time. I'll just add she's very easily influenced and not exactly neurotypical.

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JeannieAlogy · 23/03/2023 19:19

dudsville · 21/03/2023 02:15

There are "fake gurus" in every religion, and cults, etc., i understand wanting your daughter to be safe and well, but forbidding something isn't the answer. It will close down conversations and create distance.

This.
Any religion has extremists.
Re your 'choosing when to die' scenario, I think that there are many who would not think it cruel to pts a pet who was in pain or had prolonged suffering, and yet, we cannot accept that some humans would wish to follow a similar path.

Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 19:20

OnaBegonia · 23/03/2023 18:59

I didn't ask what type of philosophy or what theistic group she most closely identifies with, but I should have.
No you shouldn't have, what your adult daughters friend believes in is none of your business.
Your religion/beliefs aren't the only ones that are right/acceptable.
Christianity has been used for centuries to control people by fear and punishment.

She was the one who volunteered the information to me. And as I mentioned in a previous post, I was trying to keep convo going by asking if she's TST. Was that also inappropriate? If not then what, in your opinion, is the difference in asking someone if they belong to an atheist group versus asking if they identify with any theistic groups or philosophy? Imo, if she didn't want to talk about it then she wouldn't have told me. But if I were to ask for more info and she doesn't feel comfortable explaining further then I wouldn't push.

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OnaBegonia · 23/03/2023 19:29

You're not asking or keeping the convo going to be nice, you want info so you can justify you demanding your daughter ends the friendship.
What exactly do you think will happen if she has different views, wears black?
She's an individual who can make her own choices.
Back off.

Original poster

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 20:39

OnaBegonia · 23/03/2023 19:29

You're not asking or keeping the convo going to be nice, you want info so you can justify you demanding your daughter ends the friendship.
What exactly do you think will happen if she has different views, wears black?
She's an individual who can make her own choices.
Back off.

So would you be okay with your child being friends with a neo nazi? Again, I doubt Vicky is into that type, so no, that's not exactly why I would ask. I'm interested in the subject. The reason why I went quiet when she told me she was theist is because I pretty much closed down and didn't know what to say. After some of these replies gave me a lot to think about I no longer feel that way as much. I do genuinely think it was unfair and rude of me to show interest when I thought she was atheist as opposed to theist, and then shut her out when she told me she's theist. But AGAIN, it doesn't matter to me so much what type of theist satanist Vicky is. I think some people are purposely ignoring some things I'm saying in order to attack other things out of context and nitpick. To ask or to not ask is beyond the point. But if she were to bring the subject up with me again then I probably would ask and try to continue our previous convo. Would you want me to just ignore her? That's the way I used to try to have conversations and that didn't work out very well. I do it a different way now. New way works better.

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Sunriseinwonderland · 23/03/2023 20:42

I wouldn't worry about it. All the satanists I know only do it for the attention. They are the ones other pagans snigger at.

pointythings · 23/03/2023 20:49

Well, I wouldn't be OK with a child of mine being friends with a neo nazi (very unlikely because they are all some flavour of gay) but I would in equal measure be unhappy with a child of mine being friends with an evangelical Christian, especially one from a branch which adhered to complementarian theology. Each as bad as the other IMO, both about oppression in one form or another.

TitoMojito · 23/03/2023 20:57

I can already tell that Vicky has started to influence her as she's been dressing a little edgy and and in a lot of black, which she didn't before college.

Oh no! Do you think she’s becoming... a mall goth?

Hawkins003 · 23/03/2023 21:05

FaithRose · 21/03/2023 02:00

Both. But yes it's offensive to my beliefs, and I don't want my daughter going down that path. However, theistic satanism as a whole is a bit nuts. There's different types (I studied religion in college and that's how this convo with her started), but some are more extreme in action and beliefs than others, and some are cultish. For some examples, a couple branches get into neo nazi stuff, and at least one praises suicide as the best type of death as it's your own choice on when to go. There's so much more to this (not that crazy conspiracy stuff), but it can be looked into by anyone. I dont want to type a bunch out as I just have my phone right now. I just don't want her at risk at all. I'm worried she'll fall for this stuff herself, or become a victim. There's also fake "gurus" who trick young women.

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And yet the Christians are perfect with the crusades, persecution of the knights templar, the editing of the bible, I mean if it's all God's words then why are humans editing it, we may as well believe Harry potter is a parallel universe ect.

Point I'm making op, and apologies if I'm direct, but your dd will get other influences anyway reguardless, plus as the saying goes better the devil you know, what if she becomes friends with someone else and they are 10x worse ect. It's a very slippery slope when trying to control others.

AnorLondo · 23/03/2023 21:34

FaithRose · 23/03/2023 20:39

So would you be okay with your child being friends with a neo nazi? Again, I doubt Vicky is into that type, so no, that's not exactly why I would ask. I'm interested in the subject. The reason why I went quiet when she told me she was theist is because I pretty much closed down and didn't know what to say. After some of these replies gave me a lot to think about I no longer feel that way as much. I do genuinely think it was unfair and rude of me to show interest when I thought she was atheist as opposed to theist, and then shut her out when she told me she's theist. But AGAIN, it doesn't matter to me so much what type of theist satanist Vicky is. I think some people are purposely ignoring some things I'm saying in order to attack other things out of context and nitpick. To ask or to not ask is beyond the point. But if she were to bring the subject up with me again then I probably would ask and try to continue our previous convo. Would you want me to just ignore her? That's the way I used to try to have conversations and that didn't work out very well. I do it a different way now. New way works better.

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The idea that the friend might be a neo nazi is something you seem to have made up with no evidence.

Friedonyourfarmstonight · 23/03/2023 21:38

She'll not be a satanist. She'll just think being a satanist is cool.