Will you make it to Heaven?

[Vincitveritas]

Take the quiz and see!

jesusplusnothing.com/the-heaven-test

Very true

Yes - I'm just not quite sure if you're getting at something in particular. Oh well. 🙂

Just me being me. A bit strange

Ah! No worries- it's good to be a bit strange 😄

I got 65-80% which considering I'm a pagan lesbian isn't too shabby! I think never lusting over the opposite sex tipped the balance.

You did better than me - I got 45% - I’m regularly telling DH about gorgeous men I’ve seen at the gym!
The comments on the answers are appalling! When I die I’m going in a box in the ground - no heaven or hell for me!
So I ask you... 'If you were to die tonight, how would you avoid Hell and get into Heaven?'
And please don't kid yourself... Jesus said that when a person dies, there is only Heaven or Hell that awaits. There are no other options.

if you don’t think man has divine origins what do you think about Genesis where the Elohim created man and woman in their image?

@OMG12 I think we have quite a different understanding of the word Elohim (please see video)

So why did God choose the Hebrews? had he got against the other people of the world?

I'm unsure why God singled out the nation of Israel specifically, but as it says in 1 John 2:2, "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

The estimated date which Genesis was written is widely known. I would strongly advice taking anything you see on History.com with a large pinch of salt!

I am curious as to what makes William Blake (a humble poet and painter) an authority on anything?

I think the writers of that quiz would probably pass out at the thought of a lesbian relationship.

Have you met God?
Sorry I'm intrigued 🧐😊

@Mazdamoomum93 That gave me a good giggle.😋and I respect that you respect us. 🙏

Basically it's all human creation

@Hawkins003 You've changed Hawkins, and just as I was starting to think you might be seeing the light!

Luckily I'd got the lesson that noone scores 100% and gets into heaven anyway so trying is pointless. That was the moral right?

@Eas1lyd1stracted Not exactly, no. When a person becomes a true believer (there's a difference) a change begins to happen in their life, which should be seen in their behaviour and way of life. This comes about through the influence of the Holy Spirit. They will still stumble into mistakes and miss the mark (sin) but the difference is they now make an active decision and effort to live in a way that is pleasing to God and avoid those mistakes. Take drunkeness as an example - it's a bit like the difference between going out for a night, getting carried away with the party vibe, the music and your friends and ending up having a couple of drinks too many verses necking back shots etc before going out, followed by deliberate binge drinking all night with the full, willful intention of getting absolutely hammered.

@Mustardseed86 Thanks for the contribution, I appreciate your feedback. The quiz was really just a talking point, I'm not even sure who wrote it. The concept of sin is definitely a bit tricky for anyone who hasn't come across it before. I've found a video which hopefully helps to explain the basic message throughout the Bible.

The comments on the answers are appalling! When I die I’m going in a box in the ground - no heaven or hell for me!

@Parker231 What do you find so appalling about the comments? You've stuck around from the beginning of the thread, so what's keeping you here?

@Vincitveritas
I'm still open minded and consider the possibility.
It was just the issue on interpretation vs literal readings of the bible that I was debating. As there was a preacher in my local town and I overheard a convo about how some passages would be more interpretation vs literal.

My overall question would be, back then when writing the various passages would the people of that time period have known the double meanings in language ?

@Vincitveritas

So I ask you... 'If you were to die tonight, how would you avoid Hell and get into Heaven?'
And please don't kid yourself... Jesus said that when a person dies, there is only Heaven or Hell that awaits. There are no other options.

You don’t think the above is threatening and scaremongering ?? Not everyone is as strong mentally as I am and a comment like the above could seriously worry some people

Yes the estimated date when most of Genesis was written is quite widely agreed with out lying dissenters. It is significantly later than the traditional dates used which were calculated using the generations set out in the bible. This sets out the historical evidence for the later dating somewhere between 7-5th Bce.

Yes I think our understanding of the word Elohim differs ( not surprising if you’re basing it in that video). Now early books in the OT were probably a synthesis of the gods of Canaan (el/Elohim) and Judah (Yahweh) whilst it cannot be 100% certain what happened so long ago, El was the Canaanite god who ruled over the other lesser gods (the Ulhim - Elohim) in the Canaan pantheon- we still see the word El used to mean “of God” in names like Gabriel (power of God) Raphael (healer of god) and so on. The word itself is feminine with a male masculine ending. The surrounding words would often indicate it was meant in the singular, but this could be an attempt to force existing stories/ideas of polytheism into monotheism. At this point it is impossible to conclusively state one way or the other. However, the evidence seems to suggest a polytheistic system was the basis of the god now associated with the genesis story, Eloha was the Mesopotamian word which shared the same route.

The introduction of Yahweh (YHVH) appears to have originated is somewhat of a development from a Bronze Age war god of what became Judah through several centuries to inclusion as a creator- god in what is now the OT.

Multiple translations have morphed these into one God (together with other names of Gods inc in the OT)

and re William Blake - he was a great mystic and visionary (you could see him a bit like Paul with fewer motives I suppose). For me (and indeed for many others) his skill at creating poetry and art which encapsulates many peoples thoughts, experience and gnosis is unsurpassed.

The writers of the Bible, esp the later books of the OT and NT were extremely sophisticated - there were many layers in their writing, symbolism, allegory and of course Gematria whereby words reveal numerical values and riddles (the most famous of which being 666 - Nero Caesar -616 in the nag hamadi copy of revelations). When this was introduced is cause of some debate as to whether it had Greek, Hebrew or Mesopotamian origins.
there is fairly consistent symbols in the Bible. There was probably heavy involvement of both mystics and wisemen who would be well versed in such techniques.

Indeed, I think it’s a major issue that people don’t look behind the bible to the writers and their traditions.

Very much appreciated thank you, certainly some intriguing perspectives

I completely agree. The irony of it is that this is a branch of Christianity which prides itself on being Biblical (in the sense of the most literal interpretations of the Bible), but what they're saying is unbiblical. The Bible doesn't teach about hell in the sense we now think of it of a place of eternal suffering. In fact most popular 'hell' imagery is borrowed from Dante, and the Bible translations we use which contain the word hell are translating one of four different words used in the original text, none of which would have been understood as a state of eternal suffering or torture by early believers.

Most often the word is Sheol or Hades - not hell but basically a state of oblivion - and on occasion Jesus made reference to a location called Gehenna just outside Jerusalem where rubbish was constantly being burned.

Added to that, when Jesus spoke about judgement, punishment or destruction he did so in parables which were usually meant to be salutary warning about the destructiveness of sin. It's a stretch to say he meant every word literally - for instance, he wasn't literally telling people to cut off their hands or pluck out their eyes if they caused them to sin.

There are warnings about going the wrong way, but often these are aimed at people who were hypocrites and made a song and dance of being very religious but didn't look after the poor for example.

“There are warnings about going the wrong way, but often these are aimed at people who were hypocrites and made a song and dance of being very religious but didn't look after the poor for example.”

….and there lies a lesson for nearly every religion.

According to the Bible, we are all born sinners, in need of atoning sacrifice and the only way to have our sins removed, is through faith in Jesus Christ who died for us , so we can have renewed relationship with God the Father.

The Bible mentions that people who do not believe in Jesus will end up in hell.
I know how tough this sounds and believe me, it took me decades to understand it but now I do and Jesus Christ is where my faith rests and Heaven with God the Father is where I am going.

So as a non believer I’m going to hell? Nice!

That doesn't sound tough. It sounds bigoted, intolerant and downright evil.

Well, I’m somewhat confused by this. Humans have existed in some basic recognisable way for some 300.000 years. Using the Old Testament as a basis it would appear humans have existed for around 4,500 years. What will happen to those people who existed for the previous 295,500 years before this God appeared on the scene? What about the civilisations, say the oldest civilisations around Mesopotamia? Are all those people going to hell? Did God exist all that time together with heaven and hell presumably and keep quiet for a giggle? What made him suddenly decide to break cover, did he regret it when he took inspiration from Mesopotamian lore and drowned every living thing ( apart from a medium sized tarsus like boat full of breeding pairs because he couldn’t be arsed to do all that creation stuff again)?

why did He send his fin to earth to die in some weird kind of game which as the omnipotent god he could have avoided by setting different rules?

why do you think every other belief system is inferior. All religions think they contain the truth what makes Christianity different.

it’s great you have found a path but are you sure your religion is not one of the false gods? Are you really keeping holy the sabbath day on a Sunday. Should you be following all the Jewish laws as indicated by Jesus rather than not as indicated by the persecutor of Christian’s Paul (maybe his books are sent by Satan to undermine Gods word as expressed through Jesus).

people have their own paths, Christianity as it is today is largely cultural.from the word go, no one has been able to agree on the Jesus cult. Even if you’re right and Christianity is the way to heaven, what makes you think you’re following the right flavour. You would prob be safer being a Jesus believing Jew.

@BeverlyHa

I really don't think that pushing people into belief through fear is helpful or a true reflection of God's wish for ALL to be reconciled with him.

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive"

"In him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven"

As flawed humans, doesn't it stand to reason that we won't always see things clearly in this life? This is part and parcel of our human nature, and in fact, the first temptation was in the form of a lie. None of us sees the fullness of the truth until we meet God. For some people there are enormous psychological obstacles in the way. I believe God loves them just as much as he does you. He is the Good Shepherd, but we're meant to think he will let the majority of his flock be destroyed and/or tormented? I say majority, since obviously the larger portion of humanity are not professing Christians.

"What will happen to those people who existed for the previous 295,500 years before this God appeared on the scene? What about the civilisations, say the oldest civilisations around Mesopotamia? Are all those people going to hell? Did God exist all that time together with heaven and hell presumably and keep quiet for a giggle?"

There are a few passages which deal with this actually. In 1 Peter:

"That is why the Good News was preached even to the dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit."

In 2 Peter:
"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

And Jesus himself said “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority." (Acts 1:7)

I don't think it's such a stretch to understand that God has his own timings which are beyond our knowledge, or that he chose to reveal himself to a particular group of people over a period of time, culminating in the incarnation of Jesus. The Law and the Prophets revealed God's nature and his moral vision and promised the arrival of the Messiah, with details that were fulfilled in Jesus. It's a process that takes time - we should remember that this is because God is patient with us, not because he's dragging his heels "for a giggle".

All religions think they contain the truth what makes Christianity different.

To answer that would require a side by side comparison - but without wanting to be offensive in any way, you don't seem particularly interested in objective, differentiated truth judging by your posts, so that would be the first hurdle!

The Bible doesn't teach about hell in the sense we now think of it of a place of eternal suffering.

@Mustardseed86 I'm curious to know what branch of Christianity you're part of?

The Bible very much does mention a place of eternal suffering, I could quote many verses stating as much. This one as an example:

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."
Revelation 14:9-12.

Then there's John 10:1-18:

“Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”