AIBU - Pastor’s Wife and expectations

[Pastorswife]

This is my first post of MN after reading for several years. I’ll try and give as much info as I’m really seeking some wisdom here.

I’m a pastor’s wife, mid-30s, 2 DC (DS aged 4, DD aged 5 months). I have just returned to work as a teacher and HoD after maternity leave and work 4 days per week (5 days condensed into 4) and manage my small subject department. I do not receive a salary from church, only my husband is employed there. I’m not located in the UK.

I’m increasingly finding the expectations on me as a Pastor’s wife impossible to fulfil. Beyond my intense, sometimes stressful job, we open our apartment 3 evenings a week to church members, which can be a single person, or a group of 10. I manage the kids until their bedtime at 7pm, and also cook for everyone. I also lead once a month on the worship team, or whenever my husband isn’t preaching. We also spend a lot of incidental time with church members, such as meeting on Saturday mornings to get a coffee and go to the playground, etc.

I already find this load overwhelming. My baby still wakes in the night (only once around 3am thankfully!) so I’m doing all this without proper sleep. What’s more, the vast majority of these social interactions are very one sided. It’s people with problems in their lives who are looking for wisdom, care, or simply to vent at you. 90% of my interactions with women from church are making a cup of tea, listening to them and nodding, and then praying for them at the end. I completely understand that this is part of ministry, but it’s very exhausting and none of these people is someone that I’d call a ‘friend’. They often don’t know anything about me at all - I’m just a role, ‘the pastors wife’.
I do have a few close friends, mostly outside of the church, but it’s simply impossible to spend any meaningful time with them as I have no margin in my schedule.

I recently spoke with my DH about stepping down from my HoD position at work, and cutting back to 2-3 days a week to manage everything better. However, we can’t afford this as my job pays well and losing the HoD position would be a big financial sacrifice. We asked our church leadership if my husband’s salary could be increased so I can help him out in ministry more, but the response was that we should be able to survive on his salary.

I was very discouraged this week as, despite doing all this, people complain that I’m not ‘accessible’ enough. For example, when we host people, I like to go to bed by 8:30pm because I’ll be up again at 3am with the baby. I get main course, dessert, tea/coffee and chocolates done, and then I’ll normally say something like ‘well, I have to be up early tomorrow so goodnight everyone. Please don’t take this as an indication to leave.’ However, many people don’t like when I dismiss myself and say ‘goodnight’ because they were expecting that I’d stay up with my husband chatting with them. Sometimes they don’t leave until 10pm or later which is just not possible for me.

So, AIBU to think that these expectations are just too much? Those of you that go to church, what role does the Pastor’s wife play and how active is she in the church ministry? Does she work her own job?

Also, please don’t make this a religion bashing thread. Thanks everyone.

Yup. My mother would have been a lot better off had she left my Dad and gone it alone with us kids (also working as a teacher).

Choosing to follow a vocation is a very selfish thing to inflict on a spouse and small children.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - I think the OP should absolutely keep working as much or as little as she wants to and thinks is best for her and the family.

It just sounds to me that the church are trying to get a pastor on the cheap, if there is no way they could survive on just his wage. I don't think churches should pay their pastors so poorly that their spouses are forced to work full-time, rather than it be their choice. If the OP was unable to work for some reason - illness, a disabled child - the family should still be able to pay the bills.

Otherwise you can end up with a situation where only dual-income or independently wealthy people can work for churches, and I'm not convinced that is a good thing.

@Binfluencer Being a Vicar or Minister is not really a job.

When I said 'the church should be paying you', I meant plural you - the household. I should have said 'your husband'.

@thepastorswife

Ah I see. Yes, pastors should be paid fairly, but most ppl need 2 wages these days.

@Pastorswife good luck, I really hope you can make the changes and get some boundaries in place for your children’s sake.

Being a PK or missionary kid really sucks. Please do all you can to protect your children. People will shamelessly suck the life out of all of you if you let them.

Well, it is though.

I know it is a vocation (and, FWIW, in the past I quite seriously considered whether I had a vocation as a nun, so I don't take vocations lightly at all). From the pastor's perspective, of course, it is more than a job. But the OP is not the person with the vocation.

Of course it's wonderful and lovely if two married people happen to feel they're called to do ministry in a complementary way - if they are in a position to do that. But the OP clearly isn't in a position to do this even if she wants to - she has young children who need her and an important job. It is not right or Christian that she should feel she must sacrifice what she feels is important, for the sake of someone else's calling. She ought to be entitled to treat her husband's job as a job - and he ought to be working out ways to make this feel comfortable and possible for her.

From my experience (as a member of an international baptist church in Germany, with a very varied and multi-cultural congregation) it pays to be very clear and direct with people about what you are able to do and give the same message to everyone. Also if you have 1 or 2 good friends within the church ask if you/your family can socialise at their house for a while, or plan picnics etc so you can break the habit of the church circle expecting you to host and it won’t feel as though you are leaving people out (of course you are perfectly at liberty to host your own friends in your house but it might be a bit easier to start with).
Most modern churches even in evangelical circles should have leadership teams, it shouldn’t be up to the Pastor’s spouse to be responsible for pastoral/familial/women’s ministry. IMO some people won’t be happy whatever you do, so better to cut back drastically in one go-it might be a good way to find out which bits of the ministry are actually important-I actually got tired of all events revolving around food and eating.

I agree with @SarahAndQuack. It is a job in every meaningful sense of the word.

The idea of ‘vocation’ surely originated in relation to monks and nuns who were single and had no external responsibilities - weren’t they even supposed to cut off contact with their birth family and friends?

These days it is simply used to persuade people to overcommit for lower wages than their professional skills should command.

OP: What do you honestly think your standing in that community would be if your husband were to suddenly cease that pastor role? You would be making way for the new pastor and his wife long before any of those people would give you an invitation to a family supper.

And definitely keep your DH on his laundry promise, OP!

My Mum was a clergy wife. She didn’t relish some aspects, particularly those which labelled her as my Dad’s wife - not a person in her own right.
She didn’t have it full on as my Dad was non-stipendiary ( in simple terms Sundays only, no rectory, no sole responsibility etc.)

The following are from different clergy wives…

When you move in change the locks because some parishioners, who hold keys, will walk in/think they own you.

One of my friends ( a clergy wife until her husband retired) loathed flower arranging - a big thing at her previous Church. She showed her face but more out of duty.

An previous Rectors wife fell out with some members of the congregation/pcc big time. Some thought they owned her and her husband and could dictate what was to happen etc. Interesting times - she was right and they didn’t dictate.

There is an unspoken feeling that the wife is part of a BOGOF offer as other writers have put.

As there are more female priests it’ll be interesting to see how their husbands are viewed.

Our current priest - single but has a dog. The dog, unless it bites parishioners, will fulfil many of the roles that some think clergy wives should do.

Many rectories/vicarages were built with split use in mind - a decent sized office separate to and yet part of the main house. Where you walk in through the front door and can either turn one way into the office or the other way into the house proper.

It is a hard role, good luck to you.

@SarahAndQuack I am not disagreeing with you. OP needs to put boundaries in place. But it is not just a job for OPs husband.
I agree though that DH needs to get more people involved in organising activities instead of leaving it to OP.

One aspect of this too is that I absolutely love my job. I love my school, my students, my subject, and it’s genuinely a joy to be there. My colleagues are some of my closest friends, possibly because they see me as someone other than just the ‘pastors wife’. It would be a really big deal for me to give that up, especially after I’ve worked so hard the last 15 years to build my career. Not saying I never would of course, but it’s not something I take lightly.

Many days I wish I could just work, and then come home to my family and have the evenings to ourselves. No responsibilities beyond doing my job well, caring for DC, and loving my DH. Going for a run and doing Zumba. Reading for a hour every evening and having a long bath. Leading worship once a month or whenever I feel like it, as that brings me a lot of joy too.

It seems that I’ve built so many expectations for myself, and that others have just taken that for granted as it’s the culture we’ve created. I’m always available, our home is always open, there is always food on the table etc. Etc. I think a clean break, as many have suggested, where I step back from everything for a while would do me good. I fear that if I just compromise on a few things, then everything will start creeping back in again.

Anyway, it’s late here and my baby DD will wake in a few hours. Thank you all again for your love and support. I’m going to spend some time in prayer tomorrow morning to see what I should do concretely over the next few weeks and months.

What structure does your church have? At our church, homegroups are the main source of support. New members get linked into a homegroup, then they have 8-10 people they get to know well and can support.

You can't support everyone. It's just not possible.

I do see where you're coming from. But ... honestly, aren't there many jobs that are 'not just a job' to the person doing them? My dad is 75 and still working a 40 hour week, because he loves what he does. It is clearly 'not just a job' to him. My grandmother worked up to months before she died, in her mid-80s, because she felt a true calling to keep trying to help children who otherwise had very little support. A friend of mine is a lawyer and enormous amounts of unpaid work, because he is passionately convinced that people seeking asylum in this country need proper representation.

There are so many jobs where people feel they are answering a vocation. It's not special and different for vicars (and I say that as a practising Christian). The difference is that, unfortunately, Churches have tended to be sexist and to presume that vicars' wives don't need to be taken into account.

UK minister so different context but boundaries are vital. My predecessor had a wife who didn't work and they loved entertaining as their were empty nesters. There was much moaning and general passive aggressive muttering when I arrived and made the vicarage a parishioner free zone. I do my pastoral work in coffee shops or the church or in peoples homes. I very rarely have meetings in the vicarage office unless there are confidentiality issues. With small children it is important they have their space and don't spend their childhoods resenting the needy if the parish who will suck you dry and then moan that the dry bones aren't enough.

One thing to consider is that you have a large church yet you are trying to run it on a family church model. There are different leadership styles for different sized churches. My colleagues who run big churches are not inviting parishioners round. They have staff and volunteers and they are more in the managerial or even CEO model.

Leant the word no. Change the locks. Mark the family diary ST when you need family time. It stands for 'something' so that you can say with all honesty there is something in the diary.

People will get cross but you are not their mother. We are called to love and not be doormats.

Like many others have said boundaries, expectation setting and processes are what is needed.
Im a pastor and pastor’s wife (have only just started taking a wage of my own) so have plenty of experience with this so feel free to private message me.
For example - Newcomers - there is a once a month event held at the church that all new people come to, to meet each other, the pastor and maybe a couple of key volunteers. If there’s food then it needs to be provided on a rota basis from the members of the church.
Theres a lot more to unpick here but honestly message me and I’d be happy to go over a few more things that could help you out. Until December I too was juggling, work, church, family, friends etc. It’s exhausting and can feel like there’s no easy way out.
Knowing what your capacity is and where your giftings lie will also help with this.
Hope some of that helps x

‘suck you dry and then moan that the dry bones aren't enough.’
This is so well put and I appreciate your turn of phrase!
That’s how it feels alot of the time. Of course, I have members that I’m close to, that are easy to be with and the relationship is reciprocal. But it’s the ones that suck you dry, who are also often the ones that contribute the least, that make me very bitter and cynical. And I don’t want to be that way.

I appreciate your response and the detail that you’ve given with regards to how you structure your week. It’s given me lots to ponder.

The more responses I’m reading, the more I’m realising this is part of the problem.

Ive realised that our church is on the larger side (I’m used to mega churches so 200 members seems small to me) but it’s grown so quickly in the last 5 years, from 90 to 200, even with COVID, and we still operate like we’re 90 people.

We have home groups, but IMHO they are not ‘important’ enough and not enough members actually regularly attend them. I’d estimate that only 40% attend a home group.

We also have ministry team leaders, but again, it’s not really clear who they are, and they are not great at building their teams, so everything tends to fall on the same few people. I was actually the Worship Director for many years, but had to step down after having my DS.

My DH is an amazing pastor because he’s really relational and great with people, also a really good preacher, but he struggles with organisational things and is very disorganised. There is a part-time church admin guy, but he’s not very strong and from what I can see, only does payroll stuff and the bare minimum.

You see, from a secular perspective, I do slightly roll my eyes at the idea of parishioners constantly needing to seek counsel from the minister or every member of the congregation being in a home group ‘for support’.

How much support do people actually need? What about self-help? Spouse, friend or family-help?

The problem is that the more support that is provided then the more it comes to be depended-upon.

Your husband’s valuable time one-to-one time should be focused on those who are going through major life events or severe social problems like illness, poverty, addiction, crime or domestic violence.

I also feel that a religious community should be outward-looking, seeking to help people in need outside the congregation (without any requirement to follow the faith).

It sounds as if some of your parishioners could do with a dose of perspective and some time spent supporting others.

You and your husband should keep a diary for a fortnight, logging what and who takes up your time.

I think the results will be revealing.

If people are given the choice between an evening at the Pastor's house and an evening with a home group they will often choose the Pastor's house because it makes them feel like part of the inner circle.

Cut down the number of evening events. Run a once a fortnight or month pot luck dinner where everyone contributes - you must be spending a fortune on hosting people!

Your DH needs to start approaching people to step up - they run the home groups and then he meets with these leaders once every few weeks (NOT WEEKLY!!).

A once a month newcomers get together - this has the added benefit of allowing the newcomers to meet other newcomers which is great for them.

See if you can section off a portion of your house so that people who come to see your DH don't necessarily see your or your DC - you have every right to a private family life.

Some meetings can start at 8.30 pm with no food, just a cup of tea/coffee and a biscuit. Set a strict time limit when inviting people (x meeting 8.30- 10.30, please bring y to discuss... etc).

Time to pay someone else to do the women's ministry, even if only part time. How dare they rely on unpaid women with young children who work full time!!!!!

Your husband needs to do some basic reading on church leadership. What he is doing is unsustainable and will burnout him and you. A quick Google gives this as a starting point. www.lifeandleadership.com/ministry-resources/church-leader-foundations-church-size-size-transitions.html

He then needs to do some work on training up his lay leadership. As another poster has said it is home groups that do the pastoral work in larger churches and the focus for the church leader is in training and supporting these people whether they are called home group or cell group or connect group leaders. You cannot pastor a church of 200 in the way he is trying to. There will be push back as you are asking people to grow in discipleship but this is such a basic in ministry I do wonder how he is so unprepared.

The hard truth is that ministry is about more than an ability to preach and hold an open table. The resources are out there. For the sake of his family he has to step up and do some stuff that is outside his comfort zone like admin, leadership and boundaries. I hope that he has a wise mentor or spiritual director that can tell him some hard truths. If not he needs to get one. Another basic in ministry.

Where is your sponsoring organisation in this? Surely you aren't doing this alone?

It doesn’t matter how much reading on leadership models he does or how much church restructuring takes place this problem never changes!

I experienced this problem as a child many many years ago and it looks the issue hasn’t changed. I am no longer involved in church but I can imagine with austerity and the lack of good mental health support that the burden on churches has just got greater.

Sadly the church thinks in can always solve the problem with the “magic” of religion. Pastors think they have some special spiritual super strength and can create communities where everyone is well supported and happy. The truth is that no one and no community can achieve this as we are all human with human problems. Pastors will continue to have breakdowns due to feeling failures as they can’t achieve the impossible. Pastors families will continue to see their parents sucked dry and be exposed to the intensity of need at a way too young age!

I am with you @Constanthandcream 🙌🏻

I have nothing to do with religion now either, save for some cathedral and Minster visits. I just couldn't stomach a parish situation after having barely survived childhood as a vicar's daughter

Nothing changes 😔 I couldn't stop thinking about some of the replies above last night. It's rather depressing.