AIBU - Pastor’s Wife and expectations

[Pastorswife]

This is my first post of MN after reading for several years. I’ll try and give as much info as I’m really seeking some wisdom here.

I’m a pastor’s wife, mid-30s, 2 DC (DS aged 4, DD aged 5 months). I have just returned to work as a teacher and HoD after maternity leave and work 4 days per week (5 days condensed into 4) and manage my small subject department. I do not receive a salary from church, only my husband is employed there. I’m not located in the UK.

I’m increasingly finding the expectations on me as a Pastor’s wife impossible to fulfil. Beyond my intense, sometimes stressful job, we open our apartment 3 evenings a week to church members, which can be a single person, or a group of 10. I manage the kids until their bedtime at 7pm, and also cook for everyone. I also lead once a month on the worship team, or whenever my husband isn’t preaching. We also spend a lot of incidental time with church members, such as meeting on Saturday mornings to get a coffee and go to the playground, etc.

I already find this load overwhelming. My baby still wakes in the night (only once around 3am thankfully!) so I’m doing all this without proper sleep. What’s more, the vast majority of these social interactions are very one sided. It’s people with problems in their lives who are looking for wisdom, care, or simply to vent at you. 90% of my interactions with women from church are making a cup of tea, listening to them and nodding, and then praying for them at the end. I completely understand that this is part of ministry, but it’s very exhausting and none of these people is someone that I’d call a ‘friend’. They often don’t know anything about me at all - I’m just a role, ‘the pastors wife’.
I do have a few close friends, mostly outside of the church, but it’s simply impossible to spend any meaningful time with them as I have no margin in my schedule.

I recently spoke with my DH about stepping down from my HoD position at work, and cutting back to 2-3 days a week to manage everything better. However, we can’t afford this as my job pays well and losing the HoD position would be a big financial sacrifice. We asked our church leadership if my husband’s salary could be increased so I can help him out in ministry more, but the response was that we should be able to survive on his salary.

I was very discouraged this week as, despite doing all this, people complain that I’m not ‘accessible’ enough. For example, when we host people, I like to go to bed by 8:30pm because I’ll be up again at 3am with the baby. I get main course, dessert, tea/coffee and chocolates done, and then I’ll normally say something like ‘well, I have to be up early tomorrow so goodnight everyone. Please don’t take this as an indication to leave.’ However, many people don’t like when I dismiss myself and say ‘goodnight’ because they were expecting that I’d stay up with my husband chatting with them. Sometimes they don’t leave until 10pm or later which is just not possible for me.

So, AIBU to think that these expectations are just too much? Those of you that go to church, what role does the Pastor’s wife play and how active is she in the church ministry? Does she work her own job?

Also, please don’t make this a religion bashing thread. Thanks everyone.

I can understand completely. Both my husband and I are lay ministers in our church. There is no paid ministry so everyone helps out a bit and I have felt very overwhelmed and unappreciated at times.
When my kids were younger I took on less time consuming tasks. My family are always the priority.
If you didn't have a job it would be different but you do and you need to be able to do it well.
If I were you I'd simply step back. Do church things on Sunday and perhaps once a week. .ask for volunteers to make the tea and cakes. Perhaps there are other women in the church who would be willing to help with the pastoral care of the other women.
You might get a big of 'judgement' (church people can be very judgy) but try to rise above it.
Also make time for you and your husband this is vital.
I often think of a quote I heard once. To paraphrase it went volunteer service should fire you up not burn you out.
If you're feeling burnt out then make some changes to ensure you get fired up instead.

I'm honestly aghast reading this.

If I were you I'd simply go to weekly service and that is it! You are not being paid to do any of these duties that have somehow fell to you.

I've previously taught and it is relentless - never mind adding 2 young children into the mix!

You need to sit down with your husband and explain that if things don't change you are heading (understandably) into some sort of breakdown and things need to change now.

My gran was a pastor's wife. It is a life of service and not for the faint hearted. 4 kids, a teaching job, plus parish duties for 2 churches, Mother's Union chairing, and don't even get started on Christmas, Easter etc, visiting sick parishioners, lending an ear to people in distress. That is the life it is. She had to put others first and she never complained. It must have been exhausting but that is what it is.

This is your husbands calling and his ministry, not yours. I have worked in a number of different churches and all do it slightly differently, some are like you: completely all in. Some are the other way, eg some clergy spouses are atheists and don’t attend church at all. Most are a balance and it’s about setting boundaries. Unlike PP most clergy spouses I know work full time. Things you could consider:

• Only having meetings in church or other space (not in your home)
• Providing other kinds of hospitality like tea and coffee but not cooking.
• Not attending additional services (some clergy spouses I know attend other churches for their spiritual well-being)
• Sign posting pastoral conversations to a more appropriate listener.

I spoke to one pastors wife where the church leadership said “Oh Bob, you can hold X fellowship event in your house and Jane and cook”, Bob firmly replied “you would have to ask Jane”. You are NOT an extension of your husband.
Look after yourself. You didn’t sign up for 2 jobs on top of your responsibilities as a mum.

You are the breadwinner, have 2 jobs, get up with the baby at night and spend what little free time you gave making your h look good is his job. That's too much for one person. Ir's shocking that your h can't see that you are doing so much and risking your health living like this.

Why isn't he cooking and cleaning for guests ? He should be getting up with the baby sometimes (no idea what time clergy start work but I'd imagine that during the week there is more flexibility than say Sunday)

If I was your h I'd be expecting you at services and some of the whole congregation events at key times of year. During the school holidays perhaps you'd like to volunteer some time but not to your baby's detriment. You have a full time professional job which should be the family priority (after each other) since you're not going to be able to keep up this gruelling schedule. I bet that the 4 course meals quickly become something simpler once your h takes over.

This sounds like way too much for you both OP. I am C of E and we now have a part time vicar who has a wife and two children. Our previous vicar's wife worked part time as a teacher and took on a lot of classic "vicar's wife" duties (mainly taking charge of children's ministry).

Our new vicar's wife works full time as a teacher and she is the breadwinner as part time vicaring doesn't pay well (except for the free housing). She attends church and volunteers about as much as anyone else in the congregation (e.g. is on the rota for Sunday School but does not lead the team). IMO this is exactly right - a vicar's wife should have no more burden than anyone else in the congregation (of course there is a lot of variation within the congregation as to how much they get involved).

Thank you everyone for your amazing, supportive comments. They are just the kick up the backside that I needed.

To answer some questions:
Yes, we are cross cultural missionaries, so I’m also not living in my home country. However, I’ve lived here for 10 years and speak the language fluently now, so that’s not really an issue. The church is very international, with lots of members from different cultures and backgrounds.

I have no idea why I cook a 4 course meal three times a week. Now that you’ve pointed it out to me, it does seem completely ridiculous. I guess I love cooking, so it kind of morphed into this over the years. I loved the suggestion of my DH taking care of a crockpot meal when we have people over. Perfect solution. And I will continue to dismiss myself at 8:30pm without feeling guilty.

I have Wednesdays off, as does my DH. Kids finish school at 12pm here on Wednesdays, and baby doesn’t go to crèche, so we have a family day. DH is good about protecting this, and it’s my only respite in the week. I agree with posters who suggested keeping Saturday free too. It’s hard to do as there are often church events that day, but I definitely don’t have to go to all of them.

We have no say over salary, my DH has tried his hardest on that account. So since this is my situation for the foreseeable future, I will need to make some serious changes or I’m not going to make it. In my DH’s défense, he does try his hardest to set and keep boundaries with people. I actually think I’m a bigger part of the problem. I’ve always had a tendency to be a perfectionist and people-please, and I have trouble saying no (obviously!).

Ive asked for this thread to be moved to Religion (I didn’t know there even was a religion thread!) as it seems more suitable there.

Is this an evangelical church? If yes this level of involvement from the Pastor's wife sounds normal. Evangelical churches are IME usually organised on the basis the wife does not have a job, or at most a small part-time one. This si why most pastor's families are poor.

My goodness, that sounds utterly ridiculous. I'm a minister, and when the church employs me they employ me, not my husband. The level of involvement he has in the church is entirely up to him.

Over the years I've known many ministerial families, and where there's a spouse that person's involvement has varied from zero to pretty much full time volunteering. That can depend on the faith or otherwise of the spouse (I know a minister who is married to a Hindu), the employment of the spouse, whether they have children at home and a whole load of other factors.

Married pastors are not a BOGOF with their spouse. I suspect some of the expectations come from the church's history when ministers were all men and wives generally didn't work (reflecting the general culture at the time). The world has moved on (in good ways and bad) but the church hasn't caught up.

Sounds like you and your husband need to put some very clear boundaries in place. I'm astonished that you're expected to provide food for people on such a regular basis (although I'm in a context where there isn't the expectation of church meetings happening in homes so much). Your home, even if it's provided by the church, is first and foremost your home, and it sounds like that's not how its being perceived. If your husband has to have all these evening meetings, can they be moved to the church/other people's homes, leaving you and your children to enjoy your home in peace (and go to bed when you like)? Or at the very least can other people provide the food? You say people don't like it when you go to bed early - well tough! You're not there for their entertainment.

Can you and your husband have a conversation about what's actually reasonable for your involvement and the use of your home? In your position I think I'd be tempted to say you're going to do absolutely nothing beyond turning up to church for six months and then see what you want to go back to. That could be communicated to church members (in the context of work/kids/being busy and needing to take care of yourself and your family) and then you've got a ready answer of 'sorry, no, you know I'm not doing anything at the moment'. But your husband needs to be absolutely on board and prepared to take the flak on your behalf - would he do that?

Apologies for the long reply, I'm getting very cross on your behalf! Last thing is to wonder whether there are any other clergy spouses in your denomination/context who are managing the situation differently and who you could learn from/point to as an example of how it doesn't have to be this way?

Food attracts people. Stop doing the food fare and it is gustavo reduce numbers and workload.

You are a pastor's wife. Your role is to support him,not to do everything. He has to do more to free up your time.

Your husband can see if he can find other women who would like to be more involved. Some churches do a 3 course meal where every course is provided at a different house by a different person.

@ThirtyThreeTrees It is because food attracts people that evangelical churches tend to provide food.

If they aren't willing to pay you, then stop doing it. If your husband cannot manage to minister his own church then he needs a different job.

This is bonkers on acid.

Also just wanted to address a few more things:

You are right about the pastoral care load. That’s also crept up on me over the years. I love serving on worship, but honestly don’t enjoy doing pastoral care as I find it really draining. I will put some boundaries in place here for sure. I actually tried to be firmer about this a few years ago, but got some really bad pushback from certain women members. We actually have a lay women’s ministry leader, but like me, she works full time and has a baby, so she’s very limited in what she can do. Anyway, I need to stop caring so much what people think and just say ‘no’. My family is my priority.

Lastly, regarding domestic duties, we have a cleaner (super cheap in this country) but like most women who post on MN, the lion’s share of everything else falls on me. I’m going to kick DH up the backside again about this. He’s supposed to take care 100% of the laundry while I take care 100% of the food/kitchen, but I’ve found myself doing the laundry over the last few weeks. Again, I need to be firmer here too.

UANBU, if people really start to annoy or criticise you - tell them you are studying Islam.

The only Pastor’s wives I have seen take on this amount of load; are those that don’t work outside of the church.

Maybe I am missing something - but why is there this much need from you both from the congregation?

I understand a need for prayer/ counselling at times - some socials. But this is far too much.

Prioritise your first ministry - your family.

No matter how much you do there will always be people who will think you should do more so time to set your own boundaries. You might have to be thick skinned about it I am afraid. It is important for you and the children this is in place otherwise you will all be at the sacrifice of everyone else and you will be angry and bitter and the children will come low down the pecking order. Hope your husband can also see the need for this too.

@Pastorswife Can your husband encourage more lay ministry positions?

And sorry I have only just realised you are missionaries. People talking about this as a job do not get it. It is supposed to be a vocation, not a job.
Put limits on what you do that is fine, but the pushback is inevitable.

Good luck OP. Sounds like you know what changes need to be made. Maybe think of some standard phrases to use when too much is asked of you, such as "I won't have time for that - I'm too busy with my job and my children".

I guess the question is, is this your husband's calling or both of yours? If you were both called to ministry, then there will be a certain amount of give and take, but even so, you're doing way more than is manageable. If this is purely your husband's calling, then cut down on what you do in and around the church, focus on your job and children. Be there to support your husband (and Pastor) but make sure he's on board with you doing what you can and not overextending yourself. As Christians, we love to say God will provide - some take that as reasoning to devote everything to the Church and ignore that fact that bills still need to be paid, children need attention and sleep needs to be slept! And to add, whatever you do, it will never be enough for certain sections of the congregation, so again, do what you reasonably can.

It’s really difficult because people have unrealistic expectations of a pastors or vicars wife based in the 1950s when women didn’t work. Unfortunately you have to gently, repeatedly challenge their expectations and get your husband to do the same. Just have the repeated refrain, “[your name] is busy with her own job”. When there are meetings in your home, go and do your school work in a different room.

If they want your time, they should pay you, or pay your husband more so you can survive on one salary. It’s not a two for one. Sadly it takes a long time for the message to hit home and probably will only make a difference to the next pastor and his wife. Churches are the worst for taking advantage of people’s good will, especially women, but culture is changing slowly now more women are in church leadership.

I wish you luck.

Fwiw, I have nothing to do with religion now.

Growing up in that kind of a set up put me off, and I actually made my husband promise before we married that he would never answer a vocation call in that way as there was no way I could put my own children through it.

Some of the other replies on here are upsetting as it shows how little things have changed overall. There needs to be zero expectation that you do anything, and then if you do then that's your choice. No expectation to go to a the service, stay for coffee, give a yearly thank you event (!). Not one meal a week. None. The elders made it very clear that your place is to put up and shut up for no pay. Listen to that.

Clergy family here (not my DH) I found generally family members get treated like a offshoot by some members so if the clergy person is busy they then go to to the next family member quite often.
The way to think about it is a single clergy person wouldn't be bringing in a friend to these type of things so why should a wife or husband or even adult child be expected to.
Definitely reassert boundaries and smile with the line you will have to speak to the pastor. Generally when you stop doing it all and just living your life they stop after a transition period. Ignore any responses get your husband to do a sermon on boundaries if they get out of hand!

I would love some suggestions of phrases that I could use to have stronger boundaries. In fact, does anyone know a good book I could read, or course I could take on this? It sounds silly, but I really have trouble with this, especially when people are overly entitled or don’t take no for an answer.

Beyond ‘sorry, I’m too busy’ or ‘I don’t have time at the moment’. Or perhaps that’s all I really need to say, and say it on repeat?

I think you need to practice the phrases rather than have a selection of them. The phrase should not start with 'sorry'. How about:
'No. That isn't possible for me to manage on top of my job and parenting commitments.'
Good luck, OP - they've taken too much for granted.