Is belief voluntary?

[glimpsing]

What do people think? Threads on here have had me pondering this. Some people have said they can't choose their beliefs or lack of them - they just occur or not. Yet society does commonly to hold people accountable for beliefs. There are all sorts of beliefs that are generally not socially acceptable. Personally I think we can choose what to belief, as we encounter new information we can either accept, dismiss it or withhold from forming an opinion on it (as we're not sure where it fits into a bigger picture).

Interesting question! I suppose it partly depends on what you class as 'belief'. If I drop the apple I'm holding, I believe it will fall downwards, not float upwards. I'm not forced to believe that, but I think I'd have a pretty hard time trying not to believe it!

Also, I don't think beliefs generally just 'occur'. They are mostly based on experience and external influence imo. And we can't necessarily choose all of that, or choose what effects it all has on our views and beliefs.

In a religious sense I've tried to stop believing in the the past but can't. There's just something in me that won't "let" me stop. I can't explain it to non believers.

Its not the same as the example by PP (imo) of an apple falling downwards because we can prove that happens. I'd say that's a fact not a belief. Mind you, some people believe the earth is flat even though we can prove it isn't

@lazylinguist, I agree culture and your own experiences can have a huge influence on beliefs. However, ultimately I believe we can choose to accept or reject them. Most people question cultural influences at some point, compare across different cultures. Look at the origins of the belief, for example and how it affects people's behaviour. They even question beliefs concerning their own experiences, if they hear of contrasting ones or suspect there was something else going on which affected what they experienced which was unknown to them at the time.

That's really interesting to hear @ImNotWhoYouThinkIam. I've often thought that religious belief would be very comforting but I don't think I can make myself believe, I just have too much doubt and skepticism.

In a religious sense I've tried to stop believing in the the past but can't. There's just something in me that won't "let" me stop. I can't explain it to non believers.

@ImNotWhoYouThinkIam, I get that. Although I think the belief is my choice, I don't want to not believe and that desire is strong enough to feel almost involuntary. Like love. Although I do believe (in theory) someone could become hardened against it, if they purposefully dismissed every though which aligned with it.

Thought not though.

*@lazylinguist, I agree culture and your own experiences can have a huge influence on beliefs. However, ultimately I believe we can choose to accept or reject them.

Yes, but even rejecting them is still a result of that influence - there's no escaping it! For example someone who ends up really anti-organised religion because they were brought up a strict Catholic hasn't erased influence by rejecting Catholicism. They have been influenced just as strongly as the person who remains a strict Catholic! So it's still not a 'free' choice.

Our views and beliefs aren't just a reflection of our general cultural background. They are the combined result of everything and everybody who has influenced us throughout our lives, with a bit of genetic predisposition thrown in, I guess. So yes, you can in theory choose what you believe, but I don't think people generally settle on beliefs by actively, consciously choosing.

@ThisOneNow, interesting. Why do you think you identify with doubt and skepticism? What is it about these qualities which you value?

I'm an atheist. I never had to make an active choice to not believe in god, I just never did. I imagine that there are many things which most adults don't believe in, but which they have never needed to actively choose not to believe in. If you're a Christian, have you deliberately chosen not to believe in Hindu gods, for example? Or unicorns? I think my lack of belief in unicorns is pretty involuntary.

Fascinating question! I am thankful that I could take that "leap of faith" and believe in a God that it's impossible to prove exists. The set of beliefs that come with it take longer to learn and assimilate, which I find fascinating.

I think our beliefs can, and do, change over time and societal influences can contribute to that. It’s too complex an issue for it to be classed as a choice though although we can obviously all choose which parts of beliefs we openly discuss (so someone spouting homophobic rubbish and trying to defend it as their beliefs would still be unreasonable)

@ThisOneNow, interesting. Why do you think you identify with doubt and skepticism? What is it about these qualities which you value?

To be fair, he poster said she had doubt and scepticism, not that she valued them. I have them too though, and I definitely value them. I think it's good for everyone to doubt and question their beliefs and views. And I consider scepticism the opposite of gullibility. I think blind belief is a thoroughly bad thing.

@glimpsing I agree-I was brought up in a staunch Presbyterian household & went to church most days. My beliefs are definitely hard wired although I'm very much a skeptic & mostly logical in the rest of my life.

I like having a belief in God, although Ive not found a church that is liberal enough for me to feel comfortable attending, and have recently come to distance myself from the bible, much of which I've found uncomfortable for many years.

So yes, you can in theory choose what you believe, but I don't think people generally settle on beliefs by actively, consciously choosing.

@lazylinguist, yes, I agree a lot of cultural and experiential influences affect us subconsciously. However, people can decide and do decide to feed that subconscious to some extent by purposely in actively choosing what experiences to immerse themselves in and who with. Some people and whole communities go very far and cut themselves off from the rest of society others find separation within society through focusing their mind and actions only on participating in what is palatable to them.

If you're a Christian, have you deliberately chosen not to believe in Hindu gods, for example? Or unicorns? I think my lack of belief in unicorns is pretty involuntary.

@lazylinguist, not exactly. I don't believe in them in terms of wanting to spend my life following after them or worshipping them. However, I do believe they are a huge cultural influence which has spiritual significance for the people that do worship them.

However, people can decide and do decide to feed that subconscious to some extent by purposely in actively choosing what experiences to immerse themselves in and who with

That's a good point. But they are making those choices based on interests and inclinations which have already developed in them.

I find religion fascinating from a psychological, philosophical and anthropological point of view, but I could no more bring myself to believe in a deity than I could jump over my house. And I still find it kind of astonishing that so many people do believe. I can understand wanting to believe though, although I have no desire to.

However, I do believe they are a huge cultural influence which has spiritual significance for the people that do worship them.

That's not a belief though, that's an observable, documented fact.

@cheapskatemum

Fascinating question! I am thankful that I could take that "leap of faith" and believe in a God that it's impossible to prove exists. The set of beliefs that come with it take longer to learn and assimilate, which I find fascinating.

Yes, one of my current interests is looking a some of the differences between denominations and contemplating what complete church unity, and complete unity with God is like. Also how different denominations seem to fit different cultures and different individual strengths and weaknesses.

Interesting question op. I think our answers, in some part will be down to our life experiences and learned values from early life.
Some of us will think that we are in control of which constructs we accept and others of us will feel we are destined to believe or experience something. Many people (like me) will sit somewhere in the middle.

Personally I’m agnostic. I believe in god, heaven etc and feel like that part of my belief structure just is. I can’t say exactly why I do I just feel it and I can completely understand the science of why I perhaps shouldn’t. That aspect of my faith is automatic.

However, how I acknowledge that faith is more optional IMO.

@lazylinguist

@ThisOneNow, interesting. Why do you think you identify with doubt and skepticism? What is it about these qualities which you value?

To be fair, he poster said she had doubt and scepticism, not that she valued them. I have them too though, and I definitely value them. I think it's good for everyone to doubt and question their beliefs and views. And I consider scepticism the opposite of gullibility. I think blind belief is a thoroughly bad thing.

Ah, yes, I see now that question is very much coming from a perspective of voluntary belief.

But personally, I think there is a balance to be had between doubt and scepticism and trust. All can be useful in the correct context. Discerning accurately every time what is the correct context for each, though, is certainly a mammoth task to take on!

I think blind belief is a thoroughly bad thing.

@lazylinguist, not all beliefs are blind though. Blind belief is ignorance. Consciously acknowledging a belief and actively choosing it is not blind.

@lazylinguist

However, I do believe they are a huge cultural influence which has spiritual significance for the people that do worship them.

That's not a belief though, that's an observable, documented fact.

Ah, interesting. So you believe in spirit as a phenomenon then?

@buckeejit, I think people's differing interpretations can hugely affect how we feel about what is written in the Bible. I put a lot aside 'as not fully understood' and hope for unity.

I find religion fascinating from a psychological, philosophical and anthropological point of view, but I could no more bring myself to believe in a deity than I could jump over my house. And I still find it kind of astonishing that so many people do believe. I can understand wanting to believe though, although I have no desire to.

@lazylinguist, I think the desire is key to choosing a belief, from my perspective that you can choose belief. How is that desire formed? Again I think choice does come into it as we can focus our minds on hopes that support the desire.