Need some Christian advice please - warning controversial!

[mumclaire]

Never posted on this topic before but really need some advice with an issue dh and I are really struggling with. Know this is a sensitive topic and don't want to insult or upset anyone but we are genuinely struggling with this whether you agree with us or not...

DH and I are evangelical christians who believe that to be a practicing homosexual is a sin. However, we try very hard to 'love the sinner and hate the sin' IYKWIM. Thing is my SIL came out of the closet a couple of years ago and has now found a partner who she wants to form a civil partnership with. We have NEVER condemed or even commented on her feelings or her relationships. DH doesn't have a close relationship with his sis but still obviously cares deeply for her. We have met her partner a couple of times and made sure to include her at xmas etc. We really have tried to be as supportive as we can without condoning the relationship as we feel it is wrong.

Now we are faced with this civil partnership issue something we strongly disagree with. We would never do anything as drastic as trying to stop the ceremony - as they are adults and have made their choice. However we can't help feeling that if we attend the ceremony we will be openly agreeing with and blessing their relationship (which we don't). But we are stuck that if we don't go we really upset SIL and possibly destroy our relationship with her (and possibly upset MIL as well - but more concerned with SIL).

So we are stuck between family and belief both of which are very important to us.
Any advice would be gratefully received. Sorry for long post!

Blu, lol, yeah, that's what I meant

UQD, yes, I don't disagree. It just seems to me to be one of those factoids that different people use in different ways, sometimes in contradiction.

My point, which sort of got swallowed up because I posted it badly, was that it doesn't help the OP to say 'well, you might think this is a problem, but your faith is actually about this, so you should stop judging etc.'

I think the OP knows whether or not her faith thinks this is an issue or not. That's all.

An interesting discourse on the various parts of the bible which mention homosexuality

I think people who aren't Christian or are only nominal think this is a CHristian country. I think some more "serious" (for want of a better word, I know its not the right one) CHristians see it as anything but a Christian country.

As a Christian, I would like to see far more seperation of church and state. I'd take compulsory religious observance out of school (though allow voluntary groups - I loved my school SU group years ago) and make religious education just that - education. In fact I'd do away with church schools all together as well.

Part of this is my liberal conscience, which wants freedom for all to be who they want to be. Part of it is also that I dont want people who dont get it telling my kids what is/isn't Christian - one of my big probs with religious observance in schools is it is SO badly done that it turns many people off.

harrisey, why didn't I just shut-up and post 'Listen to harrisey. She knows of what I speak'?

Because no-one should listen to me. I'm a nutter!

Ah, in that case -

'Listen to harrisey. She definitely knows of what I speak'

harrisey, you may be a self-proclaimed nutter but you'll get no argument from me with your disestablishmentarianist ways!!

rubberduck - that was an interesting link you posted.

i feel a lot more informed, than just being guided by my previous ministers sermon.

thanks!

Can only keep popping on and off MN...
Just to clarify - I am trying very hard to sort through this issue in my head and have posted here cos its relatively anonymous. In a way trying to think and reasonit out loud. I really want to do the loving and non-judgemental thing regarding SIL but am having trouble reconciling it with my faith and what I believe. What I am seeking advice on is how I can do this without anyone getting upset.
The thing I have found about being a Christian is that it is not black and white - yes you can read and believe the bible and go to church but it is the living it out in daily life that is difficult. We sometimes do get it wrong - I'm after some advice so I don't get it wrong in this case - its too important to us as a family.
Like I said before - we are ALL guilty of judging people at some point - we all would like to think we don't but the reality is that we do so please don't blast me for doing something you are also probably guilty of.
SIL happens to lead a life that I disagree with. I would never be so rude, thoughtless and unfeeling to point this out to her. This is why I felt harpsichords 1st post really helped me out - it is not so much about what the issue is - its about how you deal with situations you feel uncomfortable with gently and tactfully. I had to state my opinion and background so you can understand the what the issue is.

mumclaire - thanks for starting this.

Its been a really informative thread, and has been done without namecalling and heat and flouncing, which is quite unusual on religious debate threads on MN. And I got a "good post" (still about that!)

Feel free to CAT me anytime, its an issue we have thought and talked through a lot.

Ooh,bit late to this discussion as the title put me off....

Can someone please explain the difference between an evangelical Christian and a *normal one?

I was treated abomibably by local vicar when I tried to get dd christened-at the time he thought I was a single parent-Lord only knows how he would have reacted had he known I was (shock horror) Gay!

I know a lot of people are anti-homosexuality (Christians or not)btu mosr average Christians I have come accross with my partner have been more than welcoming.
Was this all a charade and they immediately run home and pray for us?-or is it an evangelical thing?

Have to say, would have hated anyone of the 'love the sinner, hate the sin persuasion' attending MY civil partnership

eyes popping at my 7 months pregnant frame!

Did you know what everyone who came thought then, charliegal.

My Mum went to my dsis CP, and I know for a fact she hates the idea, even though she is a total atheist. But she loves my sister.

Can you be sure there was noone there who has an opinion you weren't aware of?

Whooosh - I am a woolly liberal CofE type and do not believe homosexuality is a 'sin'. (And I'm married to an atheist ).

Good point Harrisey-but scarey none the less.

What would be worse?-losing a friendship because a friend was honest enough to "come clean about being homophobic" or blissful ignorance of the fact but maybe forever wondering.....now that has got me thinking.

There may be many reasons I might like my Christian friends to pray for me but my sexuality really isn't one of them.

Can anyone answer my original question-is it the evangelical bit which makes the difference?

Whooosh! ( i want to put an exclamation mark at the end of your name every time I see it!).

Evangelical literally means that you take the bible pretty literally. It usually means you belive in the basics of the faith, virgin birth, bodily resurrection of Christ, need for personal repentance and a relationship with Jesus, the fact of conversion, indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It often leads to missional work, and evangelism (from the same word).

In North America it is often synonymous with fundamentalist, intolerant, right wing, pro death penalty, voting republican etc .. the George W camp. In Europe I dont think it has the same connotations, but I might be wrong. I am evangelical in my theology, and liberal in my social politics, (which means of course that the liberals and the evangelicals both think I'm wrong LOL).

Cant think of anything else right now. Ask away, though, I'm prepared to try to answer.

Oh, probably, Whoosh, but then a trad catholic would be the same. Depends how strongly someone holds to the religious authority in their faith - magisterium for the catholics, bible for the evangelicals.

I think its important to remember that homophobia is not the preserve of the religious. There are many non-theists who are also homophobic.

And there are many Christians who arent totally comfy with the idea of homosexuality who are working very hard in themselves to not let it affec tthe way they treat people. I thik that is admirable, to love people regardless. There are not enough people, religious or not, who are prepared to do that.

Oh I agree Harrisey-many a phobic out there-religious or just plain intolerant.

Have to admit that I didn't really understand homosexuality until it happened to me

I only very recently came out to my friends after 14 years with my partner (as if they hadn't guessed) and all were fantastic-now I wonder what they really think?

BTW-you answer about Evangelists makes perfect sense even though I struggle to understand it....

THere are so many things that we find hard to understand about other people through, arent there? I think the fact that we are prepared to try, and to accept even if we don't 'get it' is important.

Thats why I've liked this thread so much. No-one here is saying I believe in fairy stories and that I am deluded. People are interested and respectful, and I really appreciate it, because on MN the most vitriol I have received is for my beleifs, its the one thing I find most intolerant on an otherwise fabulous website.

Harrissey would you mind awfully if I nick this rather wonderful quote of yours - "I am evangelical in my theology, and liberal in my social politics" for my (never-ending) application to the Vicar Factory? It says it all!

Go ahead rosey.
I used it myself to get into Bible College (and they still accepted me!!)

'Tis a great quote and you are living proof it can be achieved

aww thanks whoosh !!!