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Original poster

Need some Christian advice please - warning controversial!

151 replies

mumclaire · 30/09/2007 20:21

Never posted on this topic before but really need some advice with an issue dh and I are really struggling with. Know this is a sensitive topic and don't want to insult or upset anyone but we are genuinely struggling with this whether you agree with us or not...

DH and I are evangelical christians who believe that to be a practicing homosexual is a sin. However, we try very hard to 'love the sinner and hate the sin' IYKWIM. Thing is my SIL came out of the closet a couple of years ago and has now found a partner who she wants to form a civil partnership with. We have NEVER condemed or even commented on her feelings or her relationships. DH doesn't have a close relationship with his sis but still obviously cares deeply for her. We have met her partner a couple of times and made sure to include her at xmas etc. We really have tried to be as supportive as we can without condoning the relationship as we feel it is wrong.

Now we are faced with this civil partnership issue something we strongly disagree with. We would never do anything as drastic as trying to stop the ceremony - as they are adults and have made their choice. However we can't help feeling that if we attend the ceremony we will be openly agreeing with and blessing their relationship (which we don't). But we are stuck that if we don't go we really upset SIL and possibly destroy our relationship with her (and possibly upset MIL as well - but more concerned with SIL).

So we are stuck between family and belief both of which are very important to us.
Any advice would be gratefully received. Sorry for long post!

OP posts:

StarryStarryNight · 30/09/2007 21:05

mumclaire, what has their choices got to do with your belief? Why compromise? Why be against two people who love eachother committing themselves to oneanother. I think God has taken the judgement aspect on himself so us humans can co-exist without having to make such choices/compromises.

I think it is more of a display of christian love and tolerance to go there, show your support and love and friendship with the couple.

StarryStarryNight · 30/09/2007 21:06

Twiglet, I keep saying pretty much the same as you....

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:06

if your "christian beliefs" are more important than your christian wish to show love and support to your sil and extended family then don't go..... and do the decent christian thing and explain that your dseeply helfd beliefs mean that you consider their relationship and plans to formalise that commitment a sin and you cant be seen to condone their sinfulness. but please dont seriously expect them not to be v hurt and upset by your actions.
judge not lest thee be judged and all that.
ps their ceremony and "union" will be a civil partnership. not a wedding. only a man and a woman can get married. maybe that will help you overcome your squeamishness?

Marina · 30/09/2007 21:06

MMJ has it I think. You are witnessing a civil ceremony primarily designed to give a same-sex couple the same legal rights as a married couple. It's not a religious ceremony, it's a secular affirmation of mutual love and faithfulness.
I'm a practising Christian with a very different view on homosexuality to yours, I think. I am thankful and happy that the many decent gay men and women I know, some devout and very involved in their parish work, now have the chance to protect their inheritance, property and inheritance rights. But then I come from a High Church C of E background
Please go. Think of the joy it will give your husband's family.

Blu · 30/09/2007 21:10

Think of the generosity that is being extended by THEM for inviting you, given your beliefs!

If they have invited you they are showing immense respect and love for your DH and you...I know what that would say to me if it was thrown back in my face.

StarryStarryNight · 30/09/2007 21:18

Blu has a point. A very good one.

If I were them, I would personally not want you at my wedding, given your believes. Them inviting you says a lot about them, their lack of judgement and their openmindednes.

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:19

.... and in what way exactly are you "trying not to judge them"?

Roseylea · 30/09/2007 21:20

I'd go, I'd dance and drink and have fun, and wish them all the best. (I'm an evangelical christian too.)

Then I'd go home and commit to praying for them, just like I would for other friends and family who are not christians (regardless of sexuality), and when opportinities arise I'd share my faith with them and do good to them so that they can see for themselves what being a christian means.

Sorry if this offends non-christians here - I know that some people find the idea of christians praying for them patronising, but hey! It's what we do! And we do it in good faith, literally, seeking the good of those we care for. So thre's no malice, one-upmanship or superior holier-than-thouness going on there. So be offendedeth not!

Heated · 30/09/2007 21:21

The religious ppl I respect are those who live their faith by example, rather than living in judgement upon others.

You can attend your SIL's secular ceremony with a clear heart - it does not alter your beliefs - but evinces the greatest Christian tenet which is love.

Roseylea · 30/09/2007 21:21

Sorry, I'm feeling very King James Bible tonight. Must be a Sunday thing...

Twiglett · 30/09/2007 21:23

hehehehe I like you Rosielea

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:24

nicely put rosie

Original poster

mumclaire · 30/09/2007 21:25

Thanks you've all already given me lots to think about! Exactly why I came on MN!
We really don't want to condem and certainly don't want to hurt anyone which is why its so difficult.
When it comes to our beliefs - what i meant was that if we attended we would struggle internally but would never make it public - if we make the decision to go we will go and love and support and celebrate not 'just go'. but I think we would come away feeling that we had somehow compromised what we believe just to make someone happy (no bad thing I know).
We know that a CP is just a legal agreement and I suppose thats fine - its just this whole treating it as wedding thing. I've never been invited to a registry office wedding so couldn't tell you what I'd do but I'd admitly struggle with the fact that it wasn't in the church (again I know that sounds judgemental but thats my feelings not someone elses and again I wouldn't make it publicly known).

OP posts:

Blu · 30/09/2007 21:26

It might be best not to put in the RSVP that you will go straight home and pray for them, though....

Heated · 30/09/2007 21:27

But which is more important?

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:28

....... maybe you could invite everyone to pray for them with you after the speeches?

Twiglett · 30/09/2007 21:30

'I wouldn't make it publicly known' .. apart from on the internet of course

I actually find it rather depressing that you wouldn't know how to feel about registry office weddings .. my DH and I are atheists but we are from strong, and different, religious backgrounds, we had a civil service beautiful wedding in Italy. We have a committed and loving family. We have as much right as you do to believe so with or without your God

I suppose this is really the feedback you'd get from your SIL .. that your beliefs can be offensive and hurtful in your internal judgements of others .. once again it is up to God to judge

Roseylea · 30/09/2007 21:30

Why thank you Twiglett and Controlfreaky!

Blu, I tend to agree. The only sceptic I can get away saying things like that to is my brother; he just bats me over the head with a rolled up newspaper and rolls his eyes...

Blu · 30/09/2007 21:34

"We really have tried to be as supportive as we can without condoning the relationship as we feel it is wrong. "

I know you feel as if you are the one working to make compromised here, and to encompass a family relationship with your SIL and her DP - but believe me, they will know how you feel - from your statement above.

And it will be just as much of a struggle for them to find a compromise for including you in their new 'official' fmaily. As you struggle internally with your belliefs, they feel that they are what they are to thier very core, and will presumably find it hard to embrace you knowing (as they will...) how you really feel.

Please recognise this, and hold your hand out half way over the potential divide between you.

Roseylea · 30/09/2007 21:35

FWIW, my parents chose not to get married in a church as they were not believers and, out of respect for what the religious service means, felt that to say all that stuff would be hypocritical. And I respect them for that.

Since then they have both become christians and had a lovely wedding blessing service in church, with huge party afterwards and obligatory second honeymoon...

harrisey · 30/09/2007 21:35

In Sept we went to a CP for friends of ours. We are (very) evangelical CHristians (currently both FT Binle College students) and yet we went .... Why?

Because - well, when it comes to sexuality we think it is something for God to judge on. There are so many things we realise the church has got it wrong on over the years ... contraception, slavery, women's role in the church.

Our friend's who got cp'd are also Christians. Hard for some people to swallow, perhaps. I have no doubt they are gay. I also have no doublt (following many late night conversations etc ) that they are CHristians.

Yes, this is an issue. But it narks me that sexul sin is somehow being always elevated in the church amongst all other sins, when it is clear (s I see it) in the bible that sin is sine nad there is no hierarchy.

If I choose to avoid my friends cp, do I also avoid the friends who are 'living in sin'?. What about the friends who are materialistic, or from another religion, or who have lied, or who judge.

I dont know where I stand on homosexuality, but what I do know is that I should love my Gay friends s much as I love any other friends, until God tells me otherwise. Jesus ate with tax collectors and prostitutes and ;sinners' - if He did it, then so shoudl I.

Our pastor spoke this morning on 'Living CHrist's Life'. If we follow him, we are to live as he would have. Be very sure of how you understand Jesus before you are sure you are living as he would have lived, I would say.

Roseylea · 30/09/2007 21:37

Ooooooooh good post Harrissey!

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:38

go harrisey!

harrisey · 30/09/2007 21:39

aww ROsey ((()))

Thats only the 2nd time EVER on MN someone has said 'good post' to me

Original poster

mumclaire · 30/09/2007 21:39

Sorry - you are all going to fast for me
Thanks Rosey - that helps a lot!
It is precisely the 'love one another as I have loved you' bit that we struggle with - easy to say but difficult to put in practice sometimes! What I'm saying is can't help how we feel but want to the best for everyone including ourselves.
Like I said we have never said anything that criticises SIL decisions so I don't think they are aware we are in this dilema (sp?). Dh is not close to SIL - never has been - not for any reason just the way its worked out. We only see them once or twice a year so has never really gotten deep into conversations with opinions on our faith and things (we have been christians for few years).
Sorry have to log off now but will check again when I some time in the week

OP posts:

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