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Original poster

Need some Christian advice please - warning controversial!

151 replies

mumclaire · 30/09/2007 20:21

Never posted on this topic before but really need some advice with an issue dh and I are really struggling with. Know this is a sensitive topic and don't want to insult or upset anyone but we are genuinely struggling with this whether you agree with us or not...

DH and I are evangelical christians who believe that to be a practicing homosexual is a sin. However, we try very hard to 'love the sinner and hate the sin' IYKWIM. Thing is my SIL came out of the closet a couple of years ago and has now found a partner who she wants to form a civil partnership with. We have NEVER condemed or even commented on her feelings or her relationships. DH doesn't have a close relationship with his sis but still obviously cares deeply for her. We have met her partner a couple of times and made sure to include her at xmas etc. We really have tried to be as supportive as we can without condoning the relationship as we feel it is wrong.

Now we are faced with this civil partnership issue something we strongly disagree with. We would never do anything as drastic as trying to stop the ceremony - as they are adults and have made their choice. However we can't help feeling that if we attend the ceremony we will be openly agreeing with and blessing their relationship (which we don't). But we are stuck that if we don't go we really upset SIL and possibly destroy our relationship with her (and possibly upset MIL as well - but more concerned with SIL).

So we are stuck between family and belief both of which are very important to us.
Any advice would be gratefully received. Sorry for long post!

OP posts:
harrisey · 30/09/2007 21:41

I also know that I am a sinner in the eyes of God, as we all are.

I dont think I am any better, or worse than my friends.

In the words of a friend of mine "I'm just a sinner, saved by grace"

God's grace is so much bigger than anything I can imagine, I'm happy to accept that and to believe it apples to others too!

Tommy · 30/09/2007 21:41

have never bee to a civil partnership ceremony but I would guess that they don't talk about sex do they?

Presumably, this is the only part of their relationship that you don't approve of?

I agree with what Blu says - you need to be the one making the effort as it is you that has the problem with it.

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:42

i have to say it. you come across as v judgmental to me mc. the more you say you arent the less convinced i am.

Tommy · 30/09/2007 21:43

I'm a very slow typist but agree that harrise's post is very good!

harrisey · 30/09/2007 21:46

feeling fabulously affirmed this evening

Usually, I offend people for being too judgmental

harpsichordcarrier · 30/09/2007 21:47

OK well as a very committed atheist I have this to contribute...
I am - several times a year, more often than you can imagine! - called upon to compromise my beliefs for the sake of others feelings. Weddings, christenings, adult baptisms, funerals, memorial services, carol services that I really reall must go to because X is doing a lovely dance and would be hurt if I missed it .
The christenings are absolutely the worst tbh, I find them incredibly difficult and uncomfortable BUT you know what? it is really absolutely not about me.
so that is what I say to myself. I smile, do what is needed, and tell myself very firmly: this is not about me.
this is not about you and you really have to get over yourselves. tolerance and respect for other people's lives, beliefs and feelings - these things are the cornerstone of all civilisation. Being a Christian of whatever description (or an atheist, or whatever) makes absolustley no difference to this fundamental principle. imo.

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:50

this thread has got me going now..... why is it that some christians seem happy to use their religious beliefs as a reason / excuse to judge / condemn others and are so convinced of the absolute inherent rightness of those beliefs. i thought being a christian was meant to mean you would be more loving and tolerant of others and LESS not MORE judgmental?

12lbnaturally · 30/09/2007 21:51

Such wonderful christian charity towards homosexuality "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals, it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals" (famous quote from a member of the christian faith) Anyone that supports this "christian" bigotted attitude towards homosexuality shouldn't DARE go to a gay wedding! Mumclaire If I were gay and it was my wedding I wouldn't want you there because of your views, whether you voiced them or not!

Tommy · 30/09/2007 21:51

another good post! Why can I never think of things like to say - even though that's exactly what I think?

controlfreaky2 · 30/09/2007 21:51

..... that wasnt just aimed at you mc by the way......

Tommy · 30/09/2007 21:51

(harpsi BTW)

harrisey · 30/09/2007 21:53

I dont think mc actually said anything like that.

Just as we are asked not to think all muslims are fundamentalists, ready to blow us all to kingdom come, then please dont think all CHristians (inc mc) are ready to damn eveyone to hell cos they dont agree with them.

I think that the fact mc came on here asking for advice shows a certian openess to change her views or be persuaded.

harrisey · 30/09/2007 21:54

harpsi - great post btw

12lbnaturally · 30/09/2007 21:59

The whole point of a homosexual union/blessing/wedding is to celebrate the couples life together and their future. That is their chosen lifestyle and if it really doesn't sit right with you and makes you feel uneasy then don't go. Irrespective of whether they are family or not, be true to yourself and what you believe instead of appearing to support and condone it when you don't. Thats just hypocrisy.

edam · 30/09/2007 22:03

Fab posts by Harrisey and Harpsi.

I'm always puzzled by the way some Christians forget that Jesus chose to surround himself with those who were despised by the supposedly devout. Why does going to church turn so many people into Pharisees, when the gospels are pretty clear that this is Not A Good Thing?

harrisey · 30/09/2007 22:05

Ah no! Pride is a SIN!

edam · 30/09/2007 22:05

12lb, I don't think it is hypocritical to support your friends, even when you may disapprove. And frankly even if it is, a little hypocrisy oils the wheels of social intercourse. Otherwise we'd all be brutally frank when our friends ask us what we think of their new dresses, or haircuts, or men.

edam · 30/09/2007 22:06

at Harrisey

madamez · 30/09/2007 22:16

As another thoroughgoing atheist I'd like to add: respect to Rosey and Harrisey for demonstrating that not all theists are miserable dumbfucks. To the OP: do what you think is right. Perhaps considering whether or not you would have the same stresses about attending an important rite-of-passage ceremony for Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims or pagans before making up your minds.

harrisey · 30/09/2007 22:17

I was brutally frank about a (Christian) friends (Christian) man once.

The fact that he tucked his fair-isle jumper into his trousers was the least of his problems.

I have never been that frank again (though they did split up!)

But ... NO ... Judgement (from us) is sin and I confess!

harrisey · 30/09/2007 22:18

oh Madamez .. what a bee-yoooo-tifully worded compliment!

edam · 30/09/2007 22:19

FWIW, dh's Jehovah's Witness cousins didn't come to our wedding. They sent us a very nice note saying they didn't feel able to attend the sort of ceremony we were planning (it was worded a bit more tactfully than that) accompanied by a rather generous present. No hard feelings at all, was touched about the present and relieved it meant we could invite more of our friends!

pointydog · 30/09/2007 22:35

lol @ harrisey's proud-poster glow

ladymuck · 30/09/2007 23:14

You don't say whether your SIL is a christian or not, and I think that that may make a difference.

1 Cor 5 does indicate that the church is to judge the morality of people within the church, but explicitly states that the church does not have the right to judge the marolaity of people outside the church. The judgement is a corporate one, to be made by the local body of believers, and the context is whether the behaviour of those in the church is so immoral that it causes people outside of the church to be outraged (the specific example being a man sleeping openly with his stepmother). I think that I would probably go as far as to say that there will be aspects of this moral code which will be based on local conventions of the time.

Matt 7 contains the requirement to not judge one another, going onto the need to remove the log from our own eye before taking out the speck from someone elses. I see this as a prohibition on us as individuals looking to judge one another, whether within or outside the church - we are sinners ourselves and individually have rather unreliable moral compasses.

If your SIL is not a christian then I would suggest that you don't have the right or obligation to judge her morality, and so you are just left with the "duty" to love her. If she is a christian then you need to take guidance from your church. But Jesus had a reputation for hanging out with some disreputable people - just because he drank with drunkards doesn't meaning that he was condoning drunkardness. Your SIL has reached a very significant moment in her life, a time when she is looking for support from her famly and friends. I can't imagine the Jesus that I know wanting to back away from her at this time. Pray for her, and pray that you would see her as God does.

harrisey · 01/10/2007 00:06

ladymuck - you deserve to post in my posting glow much more than i do.

You are right - we do have a duty topoint out failings to those who are Christians far more than those who do not believe.

Thankyou so much. ou have made this point more than I did,

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