Witches / Pagans, how do you view Christian religious/spiritual experiences?

[hihello]

I'm a Christian and have been reading the witches thread with interest. I wouldn't automatically disbelieve any of the experiences the witches have talked about on this thread, I believe ritual, belief and intention can be very powerful. The reason I am Christian not a witch or pagan is that I believe in Christ. Regarding spiritual and religious experiences I have had prayers granted, immediate materialisation in a couple of instances and have had prophetic dreams several times (there is a thread on here detailing one of them). Just wondering how witches / pagans view these type of experiences.

Paws

We do not have a great long list of Do Nots. We are required to contemplate every single probable and possible outcome of our actions and choose what is the least harmful to all, including ourselves. The right actions come from yourself, from your True Self, not imposed by an outside authority. If you are only kept moral and just by outside strictures, then there is little morality or justice within you.

Neither do Christians, in so much that the (Gods) laws are said to be written in our hearts once we accept Jesus as saviour. Doing this means we are under grace not the law. So right actions comes from inside of us not from an outside authority. If you read my posts upthread I wrote about how Christians, such as myself, believe God is in us. This is rather similar to your idea of your 'TrueSelf'. I feel my true self is who I am in Christ. Ditto 'True Will', I feel my true will is God's will. So I see similarities in these concepts.

Your True Will is only discovered by many years of studying and working, and is always in tune with the Will of the Universe.

I am interested in how you discover this true self, as pagans/witches. Obviously in Christianity it is through following and studying Jesus. He is our example. But how do you discern what resonates with your true self as opposed to anything you feel which is not you, just as the result of transient emotional states, for example?

hihello

It's not instantaneous. It's probably the equivalent of a lot of praying for you. Reading, thinking, opening yourself to the gods' guidance, noting any signs that you may be given. The equivalent of struggling upstream or going with the current. Are you being guided in certain ways? Has a thought suddenly been answered by a book falling off a shelf or open to a certain page (something done with the Bible by several Christian communities - my father certainly learned some Christian magic as a child and young man), or a song suddenly coming on the radio or your shuffle where the words act as guidance. Years trying to discern your wishes from that still small voice of the gods and Justice. Having a metaphorical clue by four hit you over the head by an exasperated god...

There is nothing of us that is not of the divine or of stardust. It is incumbent upon us to work towards aligning ourselves with that greater divine that enfolds the universe. That something divine which is ineffable, that stands behind the gods, that something for which the half-joking, half-awestruck name The Great Big Whatever It Is or WBWII was coined.

Of course, there are times when a 'wrong' choice must be made in order for a greater good to prevail. The most-used and classic Godwinist argument is the old chestnut of would you murder Hitler or similar in order to prevent greater harm? I certainly would have no compunction in using force to prevent another hurting a defenceless animal or human; another's choice may be to telephone the police, to practice non-violence even in self- or other defence, or even to shut their eyes and ears. One's own choice and one's own weighing up of consequences and 'the Right Path'.

I suspect that we go at this point in similar ways but with different labels.

Wishing you blessings at this time of Equinox as the Wheel of the Year turns again, and - to quote the late, great Dave Allan - may your god go with you. ❤️

Thank you for your response and kind words, Paws.

are you being deliberately obtuse or are you simply just this blinkered? I'm being neither. I'll answer any question you put to me as honestly as I can, which is more than can be said for your response or lack there of.

Read the fucking threads without your distorting goggle Nice.

Read the thread with interest. Lots of valid points on both sides. I'm approaching from having grown up in a broadly Christian background although the adults didn't actively practice. At one point in my life I became what I am defining from this thread as a 'cultural Christian'. I have since discovered paganism and it is a much better fit for my philosophy. However, I don't freely 'share' this with those I know. What strikes me right now is that Christian religious/spiritual experiences are far more palatable/acceptable to others. No one has questioned the open Christianity, commitment to the church and spiritual beliefs of those in my family who are active practising Christians. Likewise no one questioned my intention to be confirmed and take communion as a young vulnerable young adult. A bit like an ill advised marriage which ends in divorce I consider that to have been a mistake. Undoubtedly I am paying for that mistake still. However that which I have done with 'Earth Energy' I do not regret. I expect that like most pagans, most Christians value the power of a spiritual experience as validation of their way of life. My issue is not with the energy from which this arises but the PR of the church and the need to believe JC is the son of God and the only route to the light.

I find threads like this fascinating. I tend to lean more towards spirituality.

I believe in spirits, Archangels, Angels, Spirit Guides. I also believe Jesus was real, and that he is an acended master now (High up in the spirit world, if you will). Next month I am taking a shamanic class to meet my spirit guide.

I use crystals, and have recently ordered Archangel Michael cards, as I find I connect well with him the most. I am starting to meditate more too.

I pretty much believe we are all here to learn lessons for our soul. We have chosen this life for the lessons.

I was brought up Roman Catholic. I don’t agree with the whole if you don’t to this or that you go to hell. I don’t believe hell exists. Yes, if you do something considered “evil” you will be taught a lesson. I believe you go a bit further down than “heaven” but it’s isnt a lake of fire. You will pay that karma in your next life time.

As an Italian Catholic I'm very comfortable with woo and ritual.
We went to a Christmas bonfire in Italy after Midnight Mass where the music (small panpipes and drums) was Celtic. It was beautiful. People had probably been having that same bonfire for 1000s of years - after what ever the midwinter festival was at the time.
DMs friend (a practising buddhist but raised nominally catholic) was in Greece on holiday and it was the feast of St XYZ (her DD, who is autistic and she worries about), again it felt more pagan than anything so she said a prayer/did a spell...and boom lovely new boyfriend for her DD

I think 'God'/the otherwordly dimension of the universe can be found through all faiths, and it's a matter of what suits you best/what culture you were born in. I'm think if I was born in India I'd have the same feelings about Hindu Gods as I do about the Christian God.

I don't believe Christ is what mainstream religion makes him out to be. Nor god. I believe in a power but definitely not the Christian version. No doubt Christ existed as the Romans documented him but when it comes to the Christian beliefs etc paganism oudates it. Norse mythology outdates it. I am affiliated to mother nature and energy. I respect people's need for belief etc but I seek mine in the laws of nature and the universe. We will never understand the powers the universe holds but I believe those powers are "god".

Read with interest. I am a witch. I am not Wiccan though.

I do not believe in the devil or hell. I don't believe in God as the heavenly father. It makes no sense to me why he would be the creator of the earth at all. I view the earth's energy as feminine but we are so deep in patriarchy right now.

I like circles because in a circle we are all even.

I like circles because in a circle we are all even. Your words reminded me of a quote by Rumi:

“Come out of the circle of time And into the circle of love.”