Witches / Pagans, how do you view Christian religious/spiritual experiences?

[hihello]

I'm a Christian and have been reading the witches thread with interest. I wouldn't automatically disbelieve any of the experiences the witches have talked about on this thread, I believe ritual, belief and intention can be very powerful. The reason I am Christian not a witch or pagan is that I believe in Christ. Regarding spiritual and religious experiences I have had prayers granted, immediate materialisation in a couple of instances and have had prophetic dreams several times (there is a thread on here detailing one of them). Just wondering how witches / pagans view these type of experiences.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit..." This is still pushing the separateness though isn't it. The 'I' and the 'you'.

Vitology, maybe. There is separateness and togetherness/unity, though. I understand it. I have a sense of self whilst still experiencing togetherness. Like a marriage. A union.

Thanks for trying to help me understand your POV. So the spirit/soul within you is part of the whole (God), and the human (shell) is the separateness? Have I got that right? And I wonder if other Christians feel the same. I just get the impression that most Christians think of God as this separate entity. Do many Christian believe God is within I wonder.

Vitology, yes, that is pretty much what I believe. Other Christians do feel this way too. I am not the only one. It is backed up by the Bible too.

The Juliana of Norwich writings, I mentioned, allude to this too.

Not so much these days I suppose, although I have seen many a thread on here where poster feel guilt or shame fearing the wrath of God but certainly in the past people feared it. Whereas if someone believed they are "IT" then why the fear that's what I'm trying to get at.

But modern churches do preach this unity, Vitology. Why the fear? Well, 2 Timothy 1 says it is not from God, here:

"6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (KJV)

So I guess it is from a part of ourselves that is not in unity with God, The 'flesh' or 'shell' as you put it earlier, according to Christian belief.

But modern churches do preach this unity, Worldwide as a percentage of what I wonder.

"6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (KJV) I like that.

So I guess it is from a part of ourselves that is not in unity with God I agree. I also believe religion not spirituality has had a major part in this. I believe the shell/flesh is just a vessel to hold the spirit and experience his life.

*this life

I don't know exactly the percentage, Vitalogy. It's a message I've certainly heard and understood from reading the Bible, though.

Pleased we are in agreement on these points.

Pleased we are in agreement on these points. Me too

@Elphame... I am fascinated by your Deities. If I may ask, how did you first recognise them to be Deities? Did they speak /show themselves to you?
I once heard a voice during a meditation.... I reacted by almost jumping out of my skin! I later told myself I probably fell asleep and dreamt it... but still, the doubt niggles at me from time to time. Intrigued that they are flawed. Is there, in your view/experience , a supreme being? I'm sorry if you can't answer this... and apologies to op and others if I'm derailing the thread too much.

hihello I am an (Anglican) Christian with an interest in Christian mysticism and I have also had occasional visions. Would be happy to speak off board.

Thanks, bathsh3ba. I would be happy to chat off board. I have answered your post on the other (dream) thread.

@Insomma1 I'll take your question back to the witchy thread if I may.

Elphame

Good idea Elphame.

Of course.... Thank you Elphame

Ah, I see a lot of you have decamped to the witches thread. I think this illustrates how little neutral ground there is between Christian and Pagan mysticism. Take care all of you, I wish you well.

Interesting thread. Wrt the 'union with God' idea, my interest in Orthodoxy has led me to an awful lot of very interesting traditional Christian stuff around that, and what immediately springs to mind, apart from the biblical use of marriage as metaphor is St Paul talking about the God in which 'we live and move and have our being'. I love mysticism for all that kind of thing.

Flora, me too.

hihello*

I think this illustrates how little neutral ground there is between Christian and Pagan mysticism.

I think that is one for you to carve out.

Call me picky if you like

Exod 22:18, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, "

Revelation 21:8 “But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars–their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the actions of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, rivalry, jealously, outbursts of anger, quarrels, conflicts, factions, envy, murder, drunkenness, wild partying, and things like that. I am telling you now, as I have told you in the past, that people who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

*Micah 5:11-12 I will tear down your walls and demolish your defenses. I will put an end to all witchcraft, and there will be no more fortune-tellers.

Micah 3:7 Seers will be put to shame. Those who practice witchcraft will be disgraced. All of them will cover their faces, because God won’t answer them.
*6. 1 Samuel 15:23 Rebellion is as sinful as witchcraft, and stubbornness as bad as worshiping idols. So because you have rejected the command of the LORD, he has rejected you as king.”

1. Leviticus 19:26 “Do not eat meat that has not been drained of its blood. “Do not practice fortune-telling or witchcraft.

1. Deuteronomy 18:10-13 For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering. And do not let your people practice fortune-telling, or use sorcery, or interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft, or cast spells, or function as mediums or psychics, or call forth the spirits of the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord. It is because the other nations have done these detestable things that the Lord your God will drive them out ahead of you. But you must be blameless before the Lord your God.

1. Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

10. Isaiah 47:12-14 “Now use your magical charms! Use the spells you have worked at all these years! Maybe they will do you some good. Maybe they can make someone afraid of you. All the advice you receive has made you tired. Where are all your astrologers, those stargazers who make predictions each month? Let them stand up and save you from what the future holds. But they are like straw burning in a fire; they cannot save themselves from the flame. You will get no help from them at all; their hearth is no place to sit for warmth.

Trust God instead

11. Isaiah 8:19 Someone may say to you, “Let’s ask the mediums and those who consult the spirits of the dead. With their whisperings and mutterings, they will tell us what to do.” But shouldn’t people ask God for guidance? Should the living seek guidance from the dead?

Put to death for the sin of witchcraft.

12. Leviticus 20:26-27 You must be holy because I, the LORD, am holy. I have set you apart from all other people to be my very own. “Men and women among you who act as mediums or who consult the spirits of the dead must be put to death by stoning. They are guilty of a capital offense.”

13. 1 Chronicles 10:13-14 So Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD. He failed to obey the LORD’s command, and he even consulted a medium instead of asking the LORD for guidance. So the LORD killed him and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.

Should we fear the powers of Satan? No, but we should stay far from it.

14. 1 John 5:18-19 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.*

I think this illustrates how little neutral ground there is between Christian and Pagan mysticism

No not really.

The thread has changed direction markedly since your opening post

Indeed, speakout. Terrifying. I take comfort in this:

"1 John 4:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Please take care.

The thread has changed direction markedly since your opening post

Ok, what makes you say that, Elphame?

hihello

Terrifying for whom?

I am guessing not for christians.