My daughter is a Wiccan

[Nonicknamesleft]

Just spent some upsetting minutes looking on a few AIBU chats about religion. My shoulders should be broader but I still hate the way Christianity is talked about: it's blasphemous and rude imo. Anyway, so glad to have found this area. Now to the subject of this post:

My eldest of 3 is a girl, almost 12, just going into Y8 at (a CofE) sec school. She is a bright Asperger, prone to the customary obsessive passions typical of the condition.

About a year ago, we wandered into our local park to find Pagan Pride in full swing. I was with other members of my family besides the children, and not wanting to spoil the outing, allowed them all to wander around and look at the crystals, hippie clothes and expensive witchy acoutrements. So natch, dd is now a declared pagan, wearing pentagram necklaces, spending birthday money on runes etc etc. As we walked to this year's PP event yesterday, she told me that she'd never really believed in God but kept quiet to avoid upsetting me. Tbh I don't fully believe her about that but not much point arguing - what do I know?

My current position is generally to be accommodating and as respectful as poss, try to moderate my inclination to argue that it's at best silly and at worst a tiny bit evil. I know I'm being very prejudiced against it because of all the crusty trappings, and I wouldn't dream of being so sniffy about another 'proper' non-Abrahamic faith eg Buddhism.

I'd welcome advice about how to feel and how to play this. I want to just trust that God is on it and will get to the girl in his own sweet time, knowing that she's the sort of person who, if she gets God at all will get him big-time..... but I'm also more than a bit anxious that the current thing will stick.

In theory I'm a great believer in religious autonomy (eg I was raised RC but left it for the CofE) for the young, but am finding it harder to honour in practice. Fwiw she's ace at RE at school, and extremely respectful of other faiths. She deals politely with the rather hard-line Christian peers she has at school who aren't very nice to her about her beliefs. Being autistic, it wouldn't occur to her to be anything other than completely honest about her views, however unpolitic.

So, dear hive, please share your wisdom xx

The Universe just says screw that, you can have it back on you too! 

You need to be very sure your intentions are good at all times, then! If your spell casting requires no formal ritual or ritualistic paraphernalia how can you be sure any focussed thoughts are not acting as a spell being cast? And at times of heightened emotions how can you be sure all your focussed thoughts have good intentions behind them?

Hihello yes people can have a physical effect on the world, by actually going and doing or saying something, not by casting spells.

That's not 'magic'.

My belief is to never wish evil because it will come back on you x 3.

I’m sure the world is a much safer place now

Patriarchy but the beliefs behind casting spells can have a profound psychological effect on the person casting them and then in turn that person can have a physical effect upon the world.

Added to this a psychological state which is sustained can have certain physiological effects upon the body and brain so again this is another way in which ways of thinking can manifest physically.

Personally I only ever ask for things to do with me rather than other people but I do see your point about intentions.

The thing with Wiccan is you will rarely ever see people trying to recruit unlike a lot of religions. It's a very peaceful, personal experience and everyone has their own beliefs and interpretations within it and people are very respectful of those interpretations. It's a different experience for everyone.

It's a very peaceful, personal experience and everyone has their own beliefs and interpretations within it and people are very respectful of those interpretations. It's a different experience for everyone.

But this also poses a problem for an inexperienced newcomer 'dabbling' in practices which potentially could have a powerful effect upon their lives.

Hihello so you agree that they have the effect they want by physically doing something themselves, in the real world.

As opposed to supernatural magical forces.

I'm glad we agree

Patriarchy I think you have a stricter definition of magic and the supernatural than me. I tend to be rather artistic in my terms since the English language is bound up in so much metaphor, symbolism and allegory even within the etymology of individual words.

Hihello the definition of magic I'm going with is the dictionary definition, i.e 'the act of influencing events using supernatural forces'.

What is your definition if not that?

Is anyone really going to come on here to say they cast spells for evil?

There's a lot of variety in how much supernatural stuff pagans believe. Some (although not all that many)believe in the absolute literal existence of a variety of gods who require very specific forms of worship and who are responsible for the effectiveness of spells. Some don't believe in supernatural stuff at all, and think of deities as a sort of deep metaphor and that spells and rituals are a way of helping our minds to focus on a particular way of behaving. Faith isn't particularly important, which can seem strange if you come from a background where religion involves having to believe in particular things.

I think it's perfectly natural for a girl on the burgeoning cusp of womanhood to become interested in the rhythms of life and nature. It's certainly the age when I became aware of my 'female divinity' and my interest and natural leanings towards paganism developed.
Please do some reading around the subject OP, or have a look at the current thread ( which @speakout started and which is fascinating, in that it shows there are thousands ( if not millions) of men and women all over the world working with nature and its cycles to become more immersed in their surroundings and intuition.)
There is absolutely nothing to be frightened of.

sorry, forgot like!

Any witches here?http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/philosophyreligionn_spirituality/3241689-Any-witches-here

Link! Bloody autocorrect

What do you consider supernatural forces though? I, personally, would say anything that cannot be explained by science as opposed to saying anything that cannot ever be explained be science. I don't have a firm prediction concerning what might be discovered though the scientific method so this is why I take the stance I do.

That post to Patriarchy.

Hihello so what have you experienced that is currently inexplicable by science? Can you repeat your experience under test conditions?

OP, Christianity, like all organised religion, absolutely has no monopoly on goodness, kindness, love, humanity and all the other traits that make a person a decent human being.

You should be proud that your daughter is starting to think for herself in deciding which belief system resonates with her the most, and gives her happiness, and that she is not a sheep following the flock without question.

I completely sympathise with you OP, I’m a Muslim parent and if my child came and spoke to me about such things I would be alarmed too. And that’s because my first frame of reference is voodoo and hexes not druids and power of 3. Iv seen and read too much on the very modern trade in body parts for spells to ever be at ease with in.

Even within Islam there is an accommodation with certain features of the occult, islamicised from pagan practise, just as there are features of Christian worship that have been Christianised from pagan practise. To me a lot of Catholicism seems very at ease with paganism. But then so to is my branch of Sufi Islam. I could be a-ok with herbalism, meetings scheduled around the full moon, meditation, seeking the divine in nature, love of the female nature/her spirituality etc. That’s why I really like the red tent movement.

If your daughter is talking about cauldrons steer her over to books and classes on herb lore, or get her a lab kit, let her have fun making up chemical concoctions like perfumes or even slime? Reframe her interests.

Runes? Get her a fun lord of the rings fan book, something to do with movie: elvish whatever. Crystals? Get her a birthstone, a mood ring. You can’t go all hellfire and brimstone, but just channel, redirect, dial it down... etc.

Hihello so what have you experienced that is currently inexplicable by science? Can you repeat your experience under test conditions?

Just really good synchronicity. Being in exactly the right place at the right time. Science doesn't really attempt to explain that, I don't think. It is just described as 'random'. Obviously not repeatable as it is dependent on context.

Hihello there are lots of books introducing Wiccan which explain the different beliefs, have the moon cycles in and the different festivals as well as explanations about the different herbs used etc. The OP could guide her in the direction of those books first and talk to her about what it is about Wiccan she is drawn to. I don't think an inexperienced newcomer needs to be left to look into anything else other than the true nature of Wiccan, especially at 11.

Missfatty you speak in a way of ignorance then if you think of Wiccan as voodoo and hexes. That would be like saying when someone thinks of Islam they think of terrorists and bombs which would of course be from an ignorant point of view.

I do wish that people would stop using the word Wicca when they mean either paganism or witchcraft. Americans have conflated the two and now call Wicca “British Traditional Wicca”, which is very confusing - especially since Traditional Witchcraft is something else altogether..
anyway, no one practices Wicca on their own, or just “starts” it in their teens. They might however begin practicing witchcraft, or adopt pagan beliefs.
Entry to Wicca is by initiation only for 18+ only. It is unashamedly exclusive, because a period of training and selection is gone through before initiation is even considered. It is not made up, but is a modern interpretation of beliefs and practices from a number of sources, some dating back centuries. These kind of nature based beliefs predate Christianity
So your daughter is not a Wiccan, OP, although she sounds as though she is a seeker. I agree with Ladyofthecanyon's suggestion that reading through the other thread might be helpful and reassure you somewhat, as well as mentioning some useful books for both of you on paganism in its various forms, and possibly solitary or hedge witchcraft.

but is a modern interpretation of beliefs and practices from a number of sources, some dating back centuries

This has always intrigued me. Are there many sources, that Wicca draws from, which actually predate Christianity, in terms of being older than the oral traditions which the OT emerged from and don't require a whole lot of 'constructed archeology'?

Gig Wiccan is a recognised religion whereas witchcraft itself is not classed as a religion. You can be a witch without being a Wiccan.

Actually likeido, voodoo is also part of pagan beliefs. The OP said her daughter picked this interest up at pagan pride, and I surmise probably more of the worlds population practise voodoo than do Wicca. And European paganism having 2000 years of Christianity at its back is probably more sanitised - if for no other reason than constantly having to prove its ‘harmlessness’ to a muscular Christianity- than African paganism which is still powerful after a couple of hundred years of Christianity that came with colonialism. that wasn’t equipped - so fixed to the European pagan- that it didn’t know how to do with that type of pagan belief.

A large role of monotheist teaching in those countries is against the very real dangers of witchcraft. The president of Tanzania put ALL albinos under police protection a couple of years ago due to the growth in trade for rituals.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/meet-albinos-living-fear-hunters-5564770
part of the reason my ancestors converted to Islam was to get away from pagan superstition as much as to seeing islam as a solution to a host of social problems. It’s why we still stick with it when most call it a terrorist religion. It’s why I still despite its unpopularity, still teach it to my children. Because it can teach and protect them - body and mind - from a host of negative outcomes (disclaimer: though it does not have a monopoly of course). But one of those minimum being a susceptibility to practitioners of sorcery and witchcraft.