My daughter is a Wiccan

[Nonicknamesleft]

Just spent some upsetting minutes looking on a few AIBU chats about religion. My shoulders should be broader but I still hate the way Christianity is talked about: it's blasphemous and rude imo. Anyway, so glad to have found this area. Now to the subject of this post:

My eldest of 3 is a girl, almost 12, just going into Y8 at (a CofE) sec school. She is a bright Asperger, prone to the customary obsessive passions typical of the condition.

About a year ago, we wandered into our local park to find Pagan Pride in full swing. I was with other members of my family besides the children, and not wanting to spoil the outing, allowed them all to wander around and look at the crystals, hippie clothes and expensive witchy acoutrements. So natch, dd is now a declared pagan, wearing pentagram necklaces, spending birthday money on runes etc etc. As we walked to this year's PP event yesterday, she told me that she'd never really believed in God but kept quiet to avoid upsetting me. Tbh I don't fully believe her about that but not much point arguing - what do I know?

My current position is generally to be accommodating and as respectful as poss, try to moderate my inclination to argue that it's at best silly and at worst a tiny bit evil. I know I'm being very prejudiced against it because of all the crusty trappings, and I wouldn't dream of being so sniffy about another 'proper' non-Abrahamic faith eg Buddhism.

I'd welcome advice about how to feel and how to play this. I want to just trust that God is on it and will get to the girl in his own sweet time, knowing that she's the sort of person who, if she gets God at all will get him big-time..... but I'm also more than a bit anxious that the current thing will stick.

In theory I'm a great believer in religious autonomy (eg I was raised RC but left it for the CofE) for the young, but am finding it harder to honour in practice. Fwiw she's ace at RE at school, and extremely respectful of other faiths. She deals politely with the rather hard-line Christian peers she has at school who aren't very nice to her about her beliefs. Being autistic, it wouldn't occur to her to be anything other than completely honest about her views, however unpolitic.

So, dear hive, please share your wisdom xx

Nonicknamesleft - your daughter is not Wiccan - to be Wiccan she would have to be at least 18+, she would have to join a coven, she would need to undergo a year and a day's training and only then she would be eligible for initiation. At which point some (but not all) of the mysteries will be revealed.

It is a religion in which witchcraft plays a role.

The type of "wicca" she will be finding out about is the modern eclectic natured based version found in the popular books and on the internet and which is now evolving into a completely separate practice.

At the moment she is only seeking - maybe some form of paganism is where she will end up or she may gravitate to another path or she may become an atheist. You will have no say about that - if you try to influence or deflect her she'll continue but quietly and in secret. That is far more dangerous to her than her current open behaviour.

No reputable pagan group or teacher will accept her at 11, the only exception would be if you were a pagan parent bringing up a pagan child and already known to them - if she says she has a mentor or teacher then that's a red flag. And don't let her read anything by Silver Ravenwolf - her books are aimed directly at children of your daughter's age but are considered by many witches to be ethically and morally flawed.

If she wants a cauldron - then I'd let her have one. They have many uses other than spells. Mine mostly gets used for making hand lotions. My big ones make nice casseroles.

Evening all. Really grateful for all the words of kindness and support, and those who've taken on board the various nuances of the situation, especially her ASD. I sincerely appreciate the reading recommendations for us both. As so many have said, knowledge is all-important and I wouldn't have known where to start.

Thank you also for the advice about bits and pieces such as cauldrons and the like, as well as the suggestions as to how she could safely and healthily explore. I feel reassured by seeing how analogies can be drawn to Christian thought and practise; this gives a context to why p/ws do or use certain things. It's also great to have a more factual explanation of these things, so that I feel more confident that I can guide her.

DD and I have just been to see Apostasy at the cinema; we got talking about it at Pagan Pride when she was telling me about her long-held doubts about God. It was so interesting; quite a film for an 11-year old to sit through - all lingering shots of Siobhan Finneran looking wracked, sharp edits, gloomy interiors and a general sense of awfulness. Daughter was great - found it very interesting and being a bookish aspie, started analysing the characters in terms of Greek tragedy. She lowered the average age in the cinema by about 30 years.

Another thought - if you're interested in the crossovers with Christianity (there are so many - I was brought up in a devoutly Catholic family and with Catholic schooling and am always surprised at how many crossovers there are) then you may be interested in looking at druidry. The Order of Bards, Ovates & Druids are quite clear that you can be of any religion and also follow druidry, as its focus is on respect for and integration with nature. From their website, for example:

^Do I have to adopt any particular set of beliefs or practices when joining the Order?
No - all members are encouraged to believe and practice only those things which they feel are true and right for themselves. There is no dogma in Druidry, which instead is characterised by the qualities of tolerance and an appreciation of diversity. For this reason people with widely differing approaches are members, from Pagans and Wiccans to Christians and Buddhists, and to those with no particular philosophy or religion.
There are, however, a few beliefs which most members probably hold in common:
In Spirit, or God/dess - in something more than just matter
In the Otherworld - in something more than just the world of appearances
In Rebirth - in life after death in some form
In the Web of Life - in the interconnectedness of all life
In the Law of the Harvest - in the law of cause and effect, that we harvest the result of what we have sown.^

www.druidry.org/druid-way/druidry-other-paths

Sounds like your daughter likes to learn and analyse - hopefully you can enjoy learning this stuff together. Even if she doesn't take it further, it might help her refine her beliefs and establish the path she wants to follow.

Greypaw thank you very much - this is exactly the sort of help I need.

Something that I didn't speak about in the OP is that I have a huge interest in other religions and the many points of convergence, shared histories etc. It's the universality (or at least, widespread-ness) of faith, way beyond the bounds of Christianity, that makes me a believer at all.

It's interesting to me that one or two posters identified wiccan practise as part of their Christian journey. I can totally relate to that - one defining experience in my journey of faith was at the Peace Pagoda in Milton Keynes, a Buddhist monument and I really do think God is bigger than all the religious sects in the world. This probably makes me a bad Christian but it's what makes sense for me.

I hope that explains why I was so mixed up about my feelings towards dd's exploration. Posts like yours are a massive support.

Firstly I'm pretty sure I was similar at that age, convinced I was a witch but basically I dressed like a hippy and lit candles and incense in my box room 😣 it passed quickly.

I dont follow a religion but I'm not a disbeliever. I genuinely think (asking for a roasting here) that a lot of the world's evil exists within organised religion. I believe in love and tolerance etc but anything that promotes oppression and prejudice is grotesque to me.

Just fyi I dont wear flowing skirts or flowers in my hair. I usually have on jeans and converse so wouldn't fit into any general stereotypes these days.

Right, where do I start here.

Firstly, Wicca is NOT evil! I’m not being funny but Paganism and Christianity have been at loggerheads for centuries, and quite rightly so.

Paganism was in Britain long before Christianity took over. Pagans were essentially slaughtered for their beliefs.

Wicca is a branch of Paganism. True Wiccans never use their beliefs for “evil” or harm, any smart witch would know, any “harmful” spells come back to you.

It is this ridiculous, and quite frankly medieval viewpoint that Wiccans are devil-worshiping temptresses.

Right, your daughter is quite young, I’ll give you that. Why don’t you buy her age-appropriate books on Wicca? That’s a good start, and I’m sure she will appreciate it.

I also think it would be good for you to do some studying of your own. You are being a bit over the top, and frankly prejudice against this religion. I actually find the Bible much more hateful and “evil” than Wicca.

I was completely depressed by this thread by page 3 so haven't read all of it...

I'm a Christian who previously dabbled in Paganism/Wicca and went on to tarot/mediumship before returning to Christianity and renouncing those things.

I don't believe any religion or belief system is inherently evil or bad, except Satanism, and it's debatable if that's a religion. I believe any religion, improperly practised, can open the door to evil and so any child exploring a new religion needs guidance. Paganism/Wicca can, in my experience, lead on to the practice of things such as tarot, which I do believe are inherently dangerous. But the religions are not dangerous in themselves.

OP, I would focus on trying to make sure your daughter has guidance and advice from someone trustworthy who will steer her away from the murkier aspects of Wicca (as you would for any religion, including Christianity). I would explain my concerns to her and I would live out Christianity in my daily life. And I would pray for her and for her protection. But ultimately she'll make her own choices and you know that Christianity reassures us that God is always ready to come into our lives, no matter how late we leave it.

bathsh3ba

What are the dangers of Tarot and the "murkier" aspects of Wicca?

speakout, in my opinion, the dangers, as I've already said, are that doors can be opened to unwelcome spiritual interference. My limited understanding is that protection rituals are carried out before spellwork. If there was no danger, there'd be no need for protection.

Hi OP,

I think this is a good question. It will obviously spark debate though.

I was raised Methodist but went through this stage as well. 13 years old I wanted to be a Wiccan. My sister mocked me for it. I didnt have the resources to do it though. I carried on until I was in my 20s and looked more at Paganism. It fitted my more eclectic personality. Then, finally, I realised I just had a great interest in religion. I have no denomination now.
It's totally normal for a teen to become interested in this. I understand the concern regarding ASD but please do not worry.

As PP have said, Wicca and Paganism is not evil or malevolent in any way. The books I have read have purely been about being a good person, treating others as you treat them, putting out good in the world and respecting the world. It is very close to Christianity in that the ethics and morals are very similar. It's also very similar to Buddhism in regards to karma.

Incidentally, alot of Christian practice stems from Paganism. Communion - the bread and blood. Very similar to Samhain celebrations with Moon cakes and chalices. Christmas is at the same time as the Winter Solstice. Easter at the same time as Imbolc.

Your fear stems from an old tactic of raising up a new religion and demonising the old. Paganism is older than Christianity. The Romans practised it. When Christinaity came along they had to find a way of converting people and fear was the best tactic.

I would say make sure she's reading lots about it. Make sure she takes time to think about any implications of any spells she might cast. I know that sounds ominous but it's not.
To me, casting spells were like a way to focus my energy on something. The ingredients and the objects were a focal point. It was a way of creating a path in my mind, seeing what goal I wanted to achieve and making it happen. Visualising it. Indeed this last one, visualisation, is very similar to meditation in my experience. Something that usually benefits alot of people. Make sure she pays attention to detail and follows instructions. The worst that can happen is it doesn't work.

It's scary when you have such an important thing in your life like religion, something you believe keeps you safe, and then your children want to go in the opposite direction. She's at the age where she wants to start finding her own path. She wants to express herself in different ways. Going against it would only make her more resolute, I'd imagine. So talk to her when you can. Read up yourself on what it's about.

I highly recommend the Wicca Bible by Ann-marie Gallagher. It's a very good book, very comprehensive. There are some lovely things in there about the symbology (e.g. The Spiral - We are born, we live, we die, we become part of the earth, we are part of a never ending spiral of life - I still enjoy the symbolism now. The book is significantly more eloquent than I am).

You are perfectly entitled to believe whatever religion you want. But so is your daughter.

I respect all religions, including Satanism (it's not quite the evil everyone says it is though it's not something I would play around with. I enjoy reading about it). Everyone is entitled to their beliefs without facing derision. The problem is when fundamentalism gets involved and people get told they are wrong for believing what they believe.

I do not sense this is what you are doing. You are merely concerned for your daughter whose condition makes her latch on to new things quite fervently. In this case, not to worry. She has found a very kind and loving religion. Keep up to date with her and keep a distant eye. I'm sure all will be fine.

If you would like anymore recommendations for books please feel free to drop me a message.

Okay.

First this is karma at its finest, if its your god he has an ace sense of humor. If its my gods and goddesses (Pagan here) the the three fold law at its best.

Okay, your religious choices are no more valid than hers. She can and will choose her own path.

However just can a religon that practices nature, love and acceptance be evil? Your church is a building ours is nature. Your Bible is a book ours is nature. My religon doesn't ask for donations, of time or money. It just wants you to be the best version of yourself.

It empowers men and women equally where the bible tends to oppress them. Paganism and wicca produces fierce and fearless women, confident in there own right.

You, lady are the evil one for that disposable attitude. You moan about christianing being slagged off, but do the same to another. What makes yours so special.

Easy ClaryFray... consider yourself on a higher path than those who scorn other religions and look down on others.

You have reached something others have not. Paganism teaches us about reverence and respect for our world, for nature, for each other. It's hard to stay calm in the face of ignorance but stick to the higher path.

Educate others by all means but don't lower yourself to insults. Don't waste your energy on hate. The three fold law will come round to us all in time. It always does.

If there's anything I learnt whilst being Pagan, it was that no amount of words will change an angry, ignorant Christian fundie. All you can do is try to educate and then see if they're open to another POV. I don't think OP is at that fundie stage though I think she wants to understand her daughter's choices and not be afraid of them.

I agree about empowering women and creating men and women reasonably equally. Both men and women have important roles to play in life. Both balance each other out. I'd say women are revered slightly more though... what with our important life giving ability