Christian chat thread continued

[Dutchoma]

A place to share and chat about our funny (and not so funny experiences) in and out of church.
Did anyone say coffee? That would be good

It’s the eldest that’s interested now. She’s 13. The youngest is very enthusiastic about the church but not sure if she’s too young to decide for definite yet. Anyway I believe our vicar has said approx 10. He has a date where the bishop is coming for our church. Doesn’t sound like it will be too traumatic (I’m terrible at being centre of attention)

If it helps the important bit with the laying on of hands is done facing the bishop and with your back to the congregation.

Looney, where I am the bishop makes the rounds of the churches the same way. Neither rite is especially long or demanding, and you won't be the center of attention, your daughter will be. Here's the rite of baptism:

www.bcponline.org/Baptism/holybaptism.html

It's really not traumatic in the slightest.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear @MissConductUS I would like to be confirmed too. I am relatively new to the church too.

Sorry Looney, I'm five hours behind you so it's still a bit early here. All the better. It is a lovely, solemn ceremony and it's not terribly long. Since the bishop only visits once or twice a year you will likely be just one of several, or possibly many depending on the size of the church, being confirmed. The vicar will be keeping a list and know how many there will be.

I just want to say that I think that this is really a lovely thing for you to do. I was received into the Episcopal church in my 30's since I had already been confirmed as a Catholic, but it's the same rite and it's a very happy memory for me. It gives a great sense of belonging to the community.

Hi MissC and Looney. Welcome.

It's great you want to be confirmed Looney, as others have said it's a really love thing to do. And for your eldest too. Your vicar will be able to confirm but I'm sure you can usually be baptised and confirmed at the same service if you're 13ish or over. For younger kids baptism varies a lot depending on the church and denomination, first communion in some churches around 7-10, and confirmation often around 12-14.

I like the look of Barbara Brown Taylor. If I didn't already have over 100 books on my wish list I'd add her! One day perhaps.

I'm doing a course Broomstick. I've gone on about it before so I won't bore you all again. Briefly, it's a diocesan discipleship thing.

I've been wondering whether to do an Advent book this year but I've decided not to. I committed to a (short) bible reading plan on Bible Sunday which should have taken me to the end of the year, and I'm behind on that already; also behind on my reading for Module 2 of my course, and should be working on essay 2. But FWIW, last year I read this. Advent for Everyone: A journey through Matthew

I see there's a new one this year presumably following a similar format. I did enjoy it at the time because I was in a FB group of people discussing it but I can't remember much about it now! The FB group is doing Unearthly Beauty this year which I haven't looked at. Not enough hours in the day, days in the week etc.

(I took a random day off today to relax and catch up a bit with everything, which includes this!)

Our priest is doing Unearthly Beauty, too, so I might give it a go. The cover is very pretty, but it didn't grab me immediately.

Hello all! I was just at a lovely confirmation service at our Cathedral for 7 of our young people. In the whole group the youngest person was about 10 and the oldest in his 70s - and he was baptised as well. I think because there were quite a few nobody felt so exposed, and it was a very joyful and beautiful occasion. I loved especially the moment at the end where all the newly confirmed took their lighted candles and went out into the cathedral porch to hold up their lights against the darkness. That was a wonderful piece of symbolism.

I'm planning an advent course at church looking at pictures relating to the themes of advent. I rashly promised to do it and now have to think of the themes and find some pictures. Eep! I think I might get Michael Mayne's Responding to the Light as an advent book (though it might not get read very much, December being what it is, until after Christmas...).

Also - Madhairday so sorry you're ill again. That's truly rubbish. Praying for you. Was that the consent and the nativity story thread? I had a quick look and quailed at the thought of it.

And on an optimistic note - saw in the Church Times last week that a new CofE church has been built in Tottenham - the first new church for decades. It makes me feel a bit like "now the green blade riseth"

Decades wow that’s bad. Still going to alpha. Had the famous away day and not sure how I felt about it at all. Maybe I’m just not into charismatic Christianity.

Welcome Cherrypi. Alpha is not for everyone. Other points of view are available.

I was finding it interesting up till now but the holy spirit sessions felt a bit cult like.

I know that some people find Alpha really lovely and helpful, but I find it very uncomfortable. I really don't do evangelical Christianity, though, although (with time and distance and making the effort to listen) I can appreciate the many good things about it.

I think it puts as many people off as it attracts. And I am not sure it isn’t like the parable in the Bible where the plants shoot up very quickly but are not really grounded in the faith.

I think that's a bit unfair, Oma. Thousands and thousands have come to a living and sustained faith through Alpha. The thing is that not all Alphas are the same, so we can't generalise. They really do reflect the church which runs them, so if the church is more fringe then the Alpha will be too. I've been leading alphas for donkeys years now and I've never experienced anything uncomfortable on the Holy spirit sessions, they've always been so gentle and lovely and people have really appreciated them. But we do them in a very low key, open way without enforcing anything or saying anything is normal.

And remember in that parable there are seeds which go into good soil, too, so like any other course there will be those who do and those who don't.

However, I really do sympathise with those who have had uncomfortable experiences. I would hate that too, and feel unsure about the church. If you want to talk about any of it, cherrypi, then please feel free to. I know that God would never want you to feel turned away.

Sorry MHD. It’s just that Alpha to me became the outreach tool of the church that preached (and still does) the gospel of “If you do not accept Jesus as your Saviour you will be lost for all eternity.” So either convert or go to hell. And that is not a God I can worship as just and fair. And probably no, not all Alpha courses are the same and yours is no doubt very good and a good tool for evangelism, but I do understand that people have problems with it.

I've never done an Alpha course - maybe I should to find out what it's like, though I'm not really the target audience . I spent a most thought-provoking afternoon once at the Reform Beit Din (Rabbinic Court), which was hearing conversion cases. The most difficult to witness was someone who'd been a church organist for ten years and had left the church after doing an Alpha course, which she described as manipulative. It was after that that she started exploring Judaism.

I'm not very keen on what's usually known as charismatic worship - speaking in tongues, hands in the air and what have you. But I do have a very strong sense of the Holy Spirit as encouraging us and turning us back to God, praying inside us and connecting heaven to earth. I love Hopkins's image of the Holy Spirit 'over the bent/World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.' And I do sometimes have a very powerful sense of the Holy Spirit present in worship - it's just that I don't express it in very charismatic ways. I guess I think our teaching on the Holy Spirit needs to encourage people to experience the Holy Spirit in many ways and to see her presence not just in ecstatic worship but also in the everyday living out of our faith. Probably the Alpha Course does do that - and it's my loss that I can't speak from experience.

I think it's heart was in the right place but manipulative was the word that sprang to my mind too.

I was the only person wanting to be received one year, but I'm not CofE. I was surprised that the Catholic Church has laws and stipulations that are better than CofE. For example a friend was divorced, didn't think they could get married in a Catholic Church, so approached the CofE church down the road. They explained she was divorced due to DV. The vicar said I don't marry any divorcees no matter the circumstances. It was later discovered as she had married in a Civil Service it wasn't recognised by the Catholic Church, literally had to sign a form and could be married in the Catholic Church.

Things that annoy me about the CofE church is there is no dogma I'm aware of. You can have a vicar in one Parish who won't marry divorced people, even when there wasn't much option but divorce, it took my friend ages to get the courage to walk away. In another Parish you can have a super liberal vicar who will bless a gay marriage. Or I don't really keep up maybe they can even get married in CofE churches now.

AngloCatholics confuse me, it's picking and choosing the parts that you like, discarding the parts you don't.

Churches are called St this & St that, but you don't recognise Saints.

There seems to be something about the Blessed Virgin Mary too.

There's no active reconciliation you simply have to be sorry. Wouldn't you feel better though saying to a Vicar, I've done x/y/z. You get absolved and a penance of say 3 Hail Marys.

I think the Catholic Church has so much to offer, where the CofE is failing. The wedding is just one example, according to that vicar she made vows and those vows were for life. So why was it so easily sorted in the RC church they attended? All that was needed was the marriage certificate, divorce papers and sign there.

If you get divorced after church weddings you have annulments that have been simplified under Pope Francis. I guess so people aren't put off by the process.

Maybe it's my personality, I like order and for there to be a just reason for a decision, not just that the vicar says no.

Sorry if this offended anyone.

Goodness me this had gotten heavy!

*InLoveWithLizML this is one of the lively qwirks of the Anglican communion - but none of us have got it 100% right, and someday when we finally meet Jesus it wont truely mattee.

As for the Holy Spirit, I go to a Vineyard so have a somewhat more liberal view. Coming from an Anglican Tradition I'll admit I did find it very harrowing, and dare I say 'cultish' at the start, but I've come to realise that its just living oit what Jesus taught us.

I think John Wimber put it perfectly here:

InLovewithLiz on this thread we come from lots of different denominations and traditions and while we may all be attached to our own church (or sometimes not!) one of the lovely things about this thread is friendship across those divides. We like to share the funny or silly or annoying things that happen in our church life as well as our common sense of the profound joy of being a follower of Christ.

So, in that spirit, welcome, draw up a pew or chair, have a cup of after service tea or coffee and join our merry band of church chatterers.

ChristianDad I've never been to a Vineyard Church though I guess it might be a bit out of my comfort zone. That probably means I should just for the experience! A while ago a few of us were talking about going to On Fire Mission which is a (Anglo) Catholic charismatic conference - but it turned out to be too expensive. As a not very charismatic but rather high church Anglican that would be outside my comfort zone in another way!

That video was helpful thanks.

I really want to make an advent wreath but wouldn't know where to start apart from needing green foam stuff & foliage. I could get a pre made one, but really fancy having a go.

The thing about the many denominations is that there is a huge variety of ways we can worship from stripped back baptist to all the bells and smells Orthadox and all points in between. When I moderated a large ecumenical website we had loads of people rocking up and claiming that their part of the church was the one true church but all of us have a Mavis who can't hold a tune in a bucket yet is wonderful with fractious babies. Or an Eric who knows the rule book backwards and drives the church wardens and elders nuts but is the only one who can make the sound desk/church boiler sing.

This part of MN is to celebrate the joys and frustrations of being in a big church family. The tea. The cake. The struggles with music.

So newbies pull up a chair and have this pink wafer biscuit that seems to be only slightly nibbled by the church mice.

Google/Youtube it Inlove with Liz