Christian chat thread continued

[Dutchoma]

A place to share and chat about our funny (and not so funny experiences) in and out of church.
Did anyone say coffee? That would be good

It's so wonderful to read about all the reasons why you each love your favourite style of worship. When I first became a Christian (although I hate that phrase, not really sure how else to put it) I went to a very evangelical church, and definitely thought that was for me. Having moved away I struggled to find anywhere I really liked. I ended up joining the choir of a pretty high church. For the first few years I really thought I was only there because of the choir and my friends who were there, but I've learnt to realise how much I love that style too. I've definitely had moments of real closeness with God in that building in the choir stalls.

Thinking of you Edd. Sending hugs across many oceans. And tea seems to be the given thing here!

Hello. I'm new here but spotted your thread in the night when I couldn't sleep. I'm a Christian but not Anglican or Catholic, not high church at all and actually quite keen on charismatic worship! Am I still allowed to pull up a pew?!

Yes of course anna. Sit next to mhd :)
I'm on the over here but it might be better to have a if you're in the UK

Yay Anna! I'm a bit lonely over here in the Charismatic Corner

I really think it's interesting to define terms here though. I think we're all charismatic, actually, because it's simply a descriptor for the holy spirit being present - the gifts or charism, and that's through any ' style' of worship - we're all honouring God and all asking God to be present by the spirit. 'charismatic' as a word has been joined to 'happy clappy' but as niminy said there are things like sacramental charismatic - I have a priest friend who lives right at the top of the candle and describes himself as charismatic, his services are full of beauty and mystery and I've encountered God hugely there.

Evangelical is a problematic word because it has become equated with the far right American brand of somewhat harsh and intolerant Christianity. I want no part of that, and when I call myself evangelical I am claiming the root of the word - ie I am called to Jesus' great commission of telling others. I am not conservative, I prefer the term open evangelical. But I don't really like defining myself at all. I'm just a Jesus follower with a fondness for worship bands and expressing praise through my body (no, not litrugical dance, don't worry, I just mean lifting hands to God in worship etc)

What is it about charismatic that puts you off, niminy, out of interest?

Love that we can all approach God's throne from places which thrill our own spirits

(((unmumsnetty hugs))) for Edd. I'm so sorry you're sad and lonely over there.

Yay thank you!

I actually never in real life refer to myself as anything other than Christian. I do consider myself evangelical because I believe the Bible and I do like charismatic worship (although not too wild! Like a nice bit if quiet contemplation too!). But I also sometimes go to the village Anglican church cos I like variety.
Thanks Edd... definitely on the coffee here.

I've been lurking for a while. Thinking of you Edd, I'm just waiting for my tea to brew here.

Stylewise I'm more at the conservative end of the spectrum. I'm CofS which is more stripped back than Anglican or Catholic, but not charismatic.

Oh Edd, sending you my love.

You're right MHD all these terms get to be walls that divide us, and I have the feeling that's not what God wants at all.

That's a good question about me and charismatic worship. I think it is partly that the first charismatic church I ever visited was quite scary - it was a Nigerian church in Peckham, I went with my then boyfriend. There were people falling over and writhing and shouting everywhere and it felt like mass hysteria. I realise that's pretty extreme, but it was very off-putting. And then it is partly about style - I'm not a worship band kind of person and I love liturgy too much. Having said that, we are embodied beings and I think using our bodies in worship is essential. For me sacramental worship is about involving the whole body in worship. So one year I think I should go to On afire and face my fears! Maybe we could go together Edd?

I agree Niminy - too often the terms are used to divide. I wish more people could accept that God is present in all forms of worship. One of the things I love about these threads is that we all have different backgrounds and that is reflected in the types of worship.

The thing that I don't like about charismatic worship (sorry people - not meaning to be rude) is that they don't have what I would call "proper hymns".

They do have some lovely songs, but most of them seem to me to be very repetitive and tuneless. I like a good, rousing, "marching-in-the-light-of-Christ", "fighting-the-good-fight" sort of hymn, and they seem very rare in charismatic church worship.

On the other hand, the high Anglicanism of the church I attend would be anathema to most evangelic and charismatic worshippers. As apples says - we are all different, and our spiritual needs all end in the same God, but we need to follow different paths to get there.

(And I do like to try a different service every now and then - it stops me getting "stale", taking worship for granted, gives me lots of new ideas, and lets me meet new people.)

Yes, cool, I'd be up for that one day niminy

I look a good hymn too SP, though I've learnt a lot of new hymns and worship songs over the last couple of years. It makes me sad that we don't often sing the hymns of my childhood in my church, but having missed nearly 30 years I can hardly complain if things have moved on somewhat! Particularly irritating when I spot one I 'know' and then find they've changed the tune!

I'm not sure quite where I stand with charismatic worship. I feel deeply, deeply uncomfortable with every Christian charismatic experience I've had, but back in my pagan days I was quite happy to dance and sing myself into an ecstatic trance state in order to get closer to God.

So my negative feeling aren't about charismatic worship itself, but about the way that I've seen it done in a Christian context. And I'm not yet quite sure what those vital differences are.

This might be a bit of controversial question, but what do you all think about speaking in tongues? I read a story in a Christian mag (copied to FB or twitter) a few months ago about a woman who starting speaking in tongues and it turned out to be the actual text of some ancient religious prayer or something, in a foreign language. And I just didn't believe it (sorry). A friend - to my amazement - said she started speaking in tongues just a couple of weeks ago. But I was too shocked to ask about it.

That's really interesting about charismatic practice you've come across, niminy and broomstick. I too have seen stuff which deeply unsettles me and actually that I feel is not quite right. Some of the more fringe stuff I find disturbing. But my experience is that the holy spirit works with our spirits to bring what we need, and never pushes something upon us which is not something we are asking for or welcome. I find such freedom in God's presence, such a deep sense of peace and joy and things all being somehow right.

Edd. You're probably now going to think I am even nuttier than you thought before, but you did ask...
I speak in tongues. When I was ten years old God gave me this gift (I asked for it.) It was a beautiful sense of being known and loved and the language just started (not uncontrollably. Totally under my control and decision.)

I find it hard when it is used very loudly at the front of church, as it can be most unehlpful. I use it as a prayer language, it's like that passage about the spirit interceding for us in groans too deep for words. When I have no words I use tongues and it is like I am saying the things I need to say but don't know how to. I also use it in worship, at places like this sometimes people sing in tongues together and I find it beautiful, I know others struggle. I never, ever say that every Christian should have this gift; that kind of thinking is wrong and damaging and not even scriptural. The trouble is that this kind of thing has been used to abuse and control when it was intended as a gift for our freedom and worship.

My dear friend who I trust completely was on a trip in a remote part of south America. She found herself sat with a man who could not speak English and she had no idea of his language. So she spoke in tongues and he was immediately amazed and through an interpreter she was told she'd spoken in their language and said something he needed to hear. I've heard lots of stories like this and I'm not really surprised because it's what happened on the day of Pentecost.

Im sure that some would think we're making it up but I'm actually crap at gobbledegook. Tongues is a completely different experience. There's no way I could just make them up iyswim. But they have to be used to honour God.

Come back at me with questions and/or accusations of extreme nuttiness

Thank you mhd. I would never accuse you of extreme nuttiness! I am genuinely really interested. But I will ponder (and pray) before asking more questions :)

Thank you Edd.

I can only say that I find it a great privilege and mystery, a sense of being almost in the throne room of God and words flowing where they just couldn't naturally. I am glad of it and grateful for it.

Kind of sorry I said anything now. I only mentioned the style I prefer because it seemed lots of you are from more kind of high church. I wouldn't dream of saying I don't like the styles you choose because I really do think it's different courses for different horses so I'm kind of surprised at the negative feeling towards more charismatic worship on here. But then as someone said up thread differences can be divisive.

Hi Anna, I don't think anyone is being negative in a derisory sense I've been here a long time and as charismatic as they come and I feel loved here and belong in this community just because there is acceptance of one another. Sometimes we like to gently josh and jibe one another but all in a spirit of unity around our central belief in God. I love the diversity here, have so often been challenged to widen my horizons as niminy and edd are saying how they are being and so might go to that catholic charismatic festival - I think it's great that we challenge one another to try new stuff. I really hope you don't feel that anyone has been negative towards you. Anyway I need you here because the charismatic sofa is too big for me on my own

I'm glad you're here.

It's fine for people not to like various things about the way we worship. People are different and have different backgrounds and needs and those difference need to be accounted for otherwise you end up with a sort of one size fits nobody worship.

Some of us strongly dislike charismatic services. Some of us find organ music very off-putting.Some of us find incense in church a bar to access. Some people strongly dislike elaborate vestments. I think it's really useful to remember that what seems harmless and lovely to one group can also be seen to others as very unpleasant or alienating and it can be helpful to see things from that perspective.

That's one of the things I like about this group - that people are upfront about their likes and dislikes but willing to look beyond them to the truths underneath.

Completely agreed Broomstick. And I was having a lovely chat with the very lovely nickel today about the same kind of stuff, about how it's sad when Christians put one another down and hold their 'style' as the only or best one. Here I think we've always been very accepting in a humorous way, hence daft questions about biscuits and Graham Kendrick.

I like to think we have a little corner of the kingdom here; some burning incense and ringing bells, some reading from the BCP and admiring some naice robes; some in the other corner shaking in the spirit and belting out worship songs with a screen, some playing the organ and competing with the worship band in the other corner but then we all come together and say how great Jesus is and how much we love one another and how deep God's love is.

Disclaimer: I may be high on new wine

I agree about not putting other people down. There is a phrase I've heard being used recently by Christians about other Christians - "they don't preach the gospel". It makes my skin creep every time I hear it as I think it is so judgemental. I think we should all try to support one another rather than put people down like that. In the end, so much of the stuff about worship band v organ etc is just style rather than substance.

Sorry, rant over. The "they don't preach the gospel" thing has been getting on my nerves for a while now.

The hypocrisy of me accusing other people of being judgmental is not lost on me ...

it probably is the incense - it can set off dh's aathma if he's not careful

Sorry. That was me coming on after 4 days, assuming the screen was current, pressing post and realising the date was 4 dats ago.....