Atheist's corner

[ollieplimsoles]

Can I post this here?

Had a look through some of the other pages and couldn't see anything similar, so starting this off, don't know if ill get many replies but we'll see.

Basically a thread for non believers, skeptics and people who have left religion/ escaped religious cults and turned to atheism.
To chat, friendly respectable debate, and to ask questions. People of faith obviously also welcome!

Dione, I have never once suggested LeMaitre didn't have ideas whilst praying. As I have stated I have also had ideas whilst having a shit (pardon my french). I and others have said so what? what has that got to do with anything, why do you keep repeating it, as a statement its meaningless and you refuse to give it any other meaning! So until you or anyone give it meaning and we debate the evidence of its veracity then the prevailing evidence is that praying infers ZERO knowledge and is irrelevant to any idea he or anyone else might have had.

You can't prove a negative so I can only give evidence that in the history of people praying there has never been a single verified incidence of obtaining information through that means.

As a secondary point I researched the science and discovered that LeMaitre didn't have any original ideas or produce any original maths relating to the ’primeval atom’ (laterally named Big Bang Theory). So prayer or not he had no ideas he couldn't have read elsewhere. He is the Thomas Edison (who didn't invent the light-bulb, also accused of being an atheist) or Alexander Graham Bell (who didn't invented the phone and considered himself an agnostic). He just happened to get his name falsely connected to an idea.

And with that I am logging out for the night. Amen

Ollie, I have explained what I believe (I believe in god) and told you how I came to faith as best I could. I have done so with a politeness and respect that has not been reciprocated.

I will try to be more specific Ollie. What critical thinking skills did you apply when you read Walking's post at 19:39?

That wasn't respectful and you know it Dione.

I believe in god

Ok, I'm pinning that there so we don't forget you said it.
Now purely for the interest of debate, no ones right or wrong and bow out at any time.

• how did you come to believe that what you experienced was 'god'

-which 'god' ?

• has your belief in what you call 'god' benefitted your wellbeing in any way?
• why do you think 'god' revealed itself to you in this way?
• if you were raised in a faith, do you honestly think it may have influenced what happened and what you now believe?

-were you at all intoxicated at the time?

• were you suffering from anxiety or depression?
• were you having trouble sleeping?

These and others are questions I would (and have) asked myself.

Lifelong atheist checking in. Never believed any of it, not a single day in my life, not even as a child.

I feel a bit sorry for religious folk but not much as they seem happy with their delusions.

I have done so with a politeness and respect that has not been reciprocated Well colour me surprised, [double-take] I haven't found Diones posts anything like respectful. They have just been goady.

Apologies I am supposed to be going to bed.

ollieplimsoles, he wont be answering those questions but you knew that already.

Ollie, that was an actual question. I could see how my previous question about applying critical thinking skills may have been vague, so I asked it about a specific post thinking that would make it easier to answer.

Cote hi welcome to the threads thanks for weighing in!

walking I suspect as much but I need to get the thread off the subject of catholic priests and their honoured memory! I don't care if he came up with a frigging grand unified theory, there are people on this thread who have been seriously abused by church officials!

Puckered

I’m sorry to hear about your DDad.

You know your DDad very well and will take an accurate ‘model’ of him in your mind into the future. As you have new experiences you’ll have a good idea of what your DDad might think and say about them and how he would advise you. So he will always have an inner presence in your life whatever happens.

Earlier in this thread, there was some discussion of Einstein and his views on God and religion.

On hearing of the news of the death of his good friend Michael Besso, Einstein wrote a letter to Besso’s widow, which included the words:

Now he has departed from this strange world a little ahead of me. That means nothing. People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.

This was no mere platitude. The view of many physicists is that all of reality, all that was and will be, exists as a seamless whole.

Every part of the spacetime ‘loaf’ exists on the same footing as every other, suggesting, as Einstein believed, that reality embraces past, present and future equally and that the flow we envision bringing one section to light as another goes dark is illusory.

B Greene: The Fabric of the Cosmos

For you

There are posters who are prepared to have a proper discussion, and posters who aren't. Dione is in the second category. I have no idea what his/her agenda is, but it is honestly no point trying to engage.

I need to get the thread off the subject of catholic priests and their honoured memory! Yes I suspect I am part of the problem thinking I could actually engage in rational debate with a theist. I will drop the subject now because I see it is derailing from more important matters.

And I really am off to bed now.

Bert Do you doubt that I am a woman now? How did that happen?

People can be anything on here. I didn't want to make assumptions. But happy to accept that you are a woman now you've said.

You happily assumed I was a woman for years. What changed?

'God Talk is evidently nonsense' - A J Ayer. Look it up.
In summary, as physical beings proving anything about the metaphysical is impossible. God is metaphysical.
It is nonsensical to say what God is and what God is not. The very claim that there is evidence to prove the existence or non existencr of God is impossible.
Talking about God is futile.

Hey but it's fun to talk about it, and interesting. (I always say arguing about music is completely pointless though)
I think that arguing about specific religions though is very important, as many of their beliefs can be easily disproved. I agree that if there is some higher power that created the universe it would be impossible to define, but organized religions do define god and therefore that can be debated. This thread moves a bit fast for me to reply to a lot but I've been schooled about Einstein which I'm happy about!

I love debating music, too (classical, not pop)

Re religion: There is an important devate to be had. And it needs to be purely intellectual, without any regard for feelings, need to respect beliefs, etc.

"The very claim that there is evidence to prove the existence or non existencr of God is impossible. Talking about God is futile."

There might be proof one day. There isn't one now.

... which is precisely why it is NOT futile to talk about what nonsense devotion to an imaginary friend (which is what "God" is, in effect) with specific procedures for imagined contact (prayers, mass, fasting, etc) really is.

Children should be taught critical thinking, not fantastical stories that demand suspension of disbelief. In fact, if you omit RE from their lives as small children, they assess religion & God critically when they encounter these concepts in later years, and it is wonderful to see their minds work the problem & pass judgement on it as individuals.

cote I agree.

I too think RE is a dangerous subject for little ones.

Rarely taught without bias.

We should be teaching critical thinking and encouraging respect for others without having the idea that religion itself should be respected.

Gods deserve no respect.

Yes they never seem to learn about atheism in schools as far as the school children I've worked with go, maybe I'm wrong? I would have no problem with my children believing in something (well many a tiny problem!) if they'd come to in by thinking deeply about how the universe works, but a majority of people are religious Because they were brought up that way and they don't know anything else and I find it very worrying.

*maybe not many

What is to learn about though, re atheism? It's just looking at the God hypothesis and saying "You've got zero proof so I'm not buying it".

There shouldn't be RE classes at all. Why would children need to know about all the creation myths people have come up with over thousands of years to make sense of their short & cruel existence?

Teach them to think critically and not believe anything without proof. That is how we will overcome many of today's problems like the war of religions we seem to be marching towards.

Debate about god is futile when it focuses on whether or not deity exists.

This is one of the few atheism threads I have enjoyed, because it did not at first focus on disproving the existence of god but on people, on people's experiences as their position on faith changed over time or was affected by others. It focused on the different ways people have related to an unknown, and the effects.

But then along comes a theist trying to prove their point, and it all went tits-up. It's usually the other way around! But it offends me equally whether an atheist or a believer tries to foist their agenda on me.

Debate about god is BORING when it focuses on whether or not deity exists.

Iv never been brought up with religion. My dad was force fed it so he was Addams t that it would not feature in our house. And I agree that I do respect that different folk have different ideas. But as to the content, I actually am amazed that in 2017, when most people will have had a half decent level of education, it is still believed. I mean hundreds of years ago when it was just passed down and everyone believed i can see why that happened. But it's all so crazy that I find it laughable.
And don't get me started on church and education. Around us you have a choice. Church school or shit school and nothing in between.