Atheist's corner

[ollieplimsoles]

Can I post this here?

Had a look through some of the other pages and couldn't see anything similar, so starting this off, don't know if ill get many replies but we'll see.

Basically a thread for non believers, skeptics and people who have left religion/ escaped religious cults and turned to atheism.
To chat, friendly respectable debate, and to ask questions. People of faith obviously also welcome!

walking shit man!

This is a fascinating thread.

I see praying as similar to meditation, so it doesn't surprise me that people have ideas then. It's just sad that they think those ideas are coming from anywhere other than their own minds.

I also loathe 'pray for...' but find it hard to vocalise why so thanks for sharing views further up.

I wasn't brought up religious and nor was my husband and we are both atheists. My BIL is too, though in a much more 'extreme' way. He won't go to church for weddings or christenings. I quite like singing hymns so I happily go along!

I do, however, vehemently, passionately and angrily, detest and despise faith schools. I don't think state schools should be allowed to exclude pupils on the basis of religion. Ever.

I share your stance on faith schools kathy

Its not just the exclusion, its what s taught (and not taught) there.
Richard Dawkins did a documentary on it called 'faith school menace' title sexed up for channel four buts its a really good insight because he gets into a couple of faith schools, one following Islam had a biology teacher who couldn't answer the simplest questions on evolution when Dawkins asked her in front of her pupils.

ollieplimsoles , do you remember what that TV program was called, would like to see if I can find it.

OH my bad, ignore that you already named it lol

Found it on youtube

That's the one!

I will try to be more specific Ollie. What critical thinking skills did you apply when you read Walking's post at 19:39?

Walking, LeMaitre published in 1927, Hubble in 1929. Can you provide a source for your claim that it was Hubble who predated LeMaitre by 2 years?

Dione, you just seem to be quoting bios without actually researching what it was that was actually published and what any of it actually meant.

George Lemaitre reported in 1927, that a "homogeneous universe of constant mass and growing radius accounting for the radial velocity of extra galactic nebulae’', where he proposed that the universe expanded from the finite static state imagined by Einstein. But only in 1931, at a meeting of the British Association on the relation between the physical universe and spirituality (sic), did he propose that the universe originated in a ’primeval atom’ (the later named Big Bang Theory) This was 2 years after Edwin Hubble had demonstrated cosmic expansion

FYI note Hubble actually demonstrated it not just proposed it.

So we still have a god giving a scientist an idea someone else already had, some mathematics that other people had already solved and a concept that someone else had already demonstrated.

FYI note 2, 'he found praying helpful' is completely ignored as Dione tries to fixate on minutiae to distract from the actual point of trying to imply god fed Lemaitre info to prove his existence.

Ha!

Dione sorry to disappoint you, I'm sure you thought my post after it was an indication that I took everything walking said as truth and congratulating her for it. Not so at all- my comment was on the length of her post and the extent of her research, not the accuracy of the content.

Now ill ask you again,
What happened in your kitchen?

Tell me what happened in your kitchen and you'll see my critical thinking skills in fucking action.

But I did not imply that God fed LeMaitre. Your statement was: His prayers to a God gave him ZERO ideas. Whether or not a God exists, this statement is incorrect, because his prayers to a god did give him ideas.

Ollie, I told you what happened in my kitchen.

But I did not imply that God fed LeMaitre. Your statement was: His prayers to a God gave him ZERO ideas.

But you wont say what you implied by your statement, (prayers helped him) you just keep repeating that everyone else is wrong when they try and understand what you mean! Its like a game of mental hide and band head off wall seek.

Whether or not a God exists, this statement is incorrect, because his prayers to a god did give him ideas

Why is it incorrect? you keep asserting that but give ZERO reasons. I have laid mine out and my premises all still seem to be valid. What ideas did 'prayer' give him and why is that different from saying going for a shit gave him those ideas?

Why do theists never give any reasons for anything! FFS This is why we need an atheists corner!

I'm agnostic but I'm struggling as my dad is really ill. I don't think I'm an atheist. But how can I believe in anything spiritual or unknown when my dad is ill. My dh is an atheist and it's cut and dry for him. There is nothing else.

I am sure Ollie has this but Dione you most definitely did NOT say what happened in your kitchen.

"I went into my kitchen an atheist and came out believing in God. Something happened that made me believe and it happened in an instant".- So something happened but you dont say what.

"like a light being turned up with a dimmer switch while feeling I was being wrapped in a blanket" - Again you imply something happened and what it felt like but NO explanation of what actually happened.

By your answers you have implied it was god that you experienced, did he reveal any secrets of the universe that you are implying he did to LeMaitre (even though he really didn't).

Puckered Do you believe in a god?
What about your Dad, does he believe?
Its hard when people you love are ill. But celebrate his life, celebrate what he has achieved. Your Dad was/is part of your life and always will be. Its how life works, live in the moment, celebrate the moment, nothing is forever and if it was it would take away the precious time we have and make it trivial.

Walking, there is evidence (in hos biography) that he had some of his ideas whilst praying. You have provided no evidence for your premise that "going for a shit gave him those ideas".

I told you what happened in my kitchen.

Can you be certain that whatever happened could not be most simply be explained as a delusion, a product of your own mind? I don't mean 'delusion' pejoratively - it's the word I found best fitted my own subjective 'experiences of God' when viewed without faith, using criteria of evidence and probability (long before dawkins used it!)

Once again Walking, I did not imply that god gave anything to LeMaitre. You have inferred it.

Wrt my post about what happened in my kitchen, once again I did not imply anything. I answered, as best I could, Ollie's question about how I came to believe. I believe in god. I'm not implying that I believe in god.

Right, this is just getting ridiculous now.

Dione if you want to just continue kicking a can down the road, picking posts apart because you have a hard on for a catholic priest, then by all means do it, but I'm not engaging with you on this thread any more. You derailed the discussion enough.

Either explain what you believe and why honestly and to the best of your ability and we can have a polite, rational discussion or continue being obtuse and keep your imaginary friend to yourself.

Puckered * I'm sorry, sounds like this is a tough time for you. My thought are similar to walkings on this -* my own parents are gone - they believed in heaven but I don't. Nevertheless, they are still 'with' me - in my memories, in things I learned from them. Occasionally I've had dreams where they crop up - not in any spooky way, just naturally and happily.

Errol of course there is doubt, but as Bert said upthread, for me the doubt is so small as to be insignificant. Most of us have doubt but I think it is the scale of that doubt that shifts us to atheist or believer.

We are all just a percentage point away from being agnostic.

Puckered, why do you need to think of anything spiritual or unknown at this time? Your life sounds hard enough without putting pressure on yourself to believe what other people do.

Most of us have doubt but I think it is the scale of that doubt that shifts us to atheist or believer.

Doubt in what?

puckered I'm so sorry i totally missed your post unthread. That sounds very tough are you willing to elaborate on what's worrying you specifically? (it could be loads of things I realise)