What on earth did she mean by this?

[Sashamasha]

Last Saturday night me and my husband had some friends over for dinner just a few other couples. One couple was a friend of my husband and his wife. She is about my age (36) and although I have seen met her several times and seen her about I've never really spoken to her before and always got the impression she was a bit shy.

Anyway after dinner some of us got talking in the kitchen just about how at our age you finally start to grow up, that you get a much stronger, more solid idea of who you are and your values and that you just really know yourself and have a handle on the world. She wasn't really saying much although she was listening.

Trying to bring her out her shell I asked her very directly what her what her opinion on the topic was and although I can't remember it word for word she basically said something like the concept of being a grown up and having some sort of control was a comfort but that as humans we are all just needs, urges and want and that any understanding we had of ourselves or the world was fleeting and incomplete. She also said she felt that thinking of yourself as some how solid, defined and in control was to be in denial of what we are and a kind of self deception although she then said that self deception was probably a necessary evil.

Well there wasn't very much left to be said after that! She sounds a bit gloomy but she isn't she is very sweet but just never says much and seems to be a bit of a loner (she's an artist). Anyway I can't get what she said out of my mind, I feel a bit disturbed by it and if I am honest I don't really understand it.

So anyone have any idea of what she was on about?

I've always felt I was clever though and its easy for me to dismiss "deep thinkers" as pretentious navel gazers even if on some level I know there is more to what they say. Its just to much work to get into it all

I think this is the root of why you're feeling uncomfortable about what she said and can't let it go. What she says hit a chord, but you don't want to get into the 'work' of thinking about it. It's easier to stay in your comfort zone.

Richard Wiseman writes very accessible psychology books, let me see which one might be a good fit for this sort of area.

Btw I am LOVING this thread in between wiping baby porridge off self and sitting on playmat filling the fisher price cookie jar ONE MORE TIME.

I think she has made you feel a bit uncomfortable OP

A lot uncomfortable more like, but that's no bad thing. It doesn't hurt any of us to be jolted out of our comfort zones, said with a beatific

Ok, this is a fairly accessible book on the 'illusion' of who are 'are':

www.amazon.co.uk/Vital-Lies-Simple-Truths-Self-deception/dp/0747534993/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1475667404&sr=8-2&keywords=Psychology+of+the+self

I just nearly commented here by mistake instead of on a style and beauty one about glittery eye shadow - now THAT would have brought the tone down/highlighted the beautiful juxtaposition of the philosophical and the mundane #womanssearchformeaning #andglitter

^
'Who we 'are'", that should say.

Sounds like a plausible sort of theory, only a theory, we can never really step outside of ourselves or step out of being human so any theories are highlt anthropomorphic

Bear in mind we don't have the first clue of a solution to the hard problem of consciousness, and all that stuff about ego, id unconscious etc etc, psychology, psychiatry its all just a bunch of theory

I don't know why you feel like this isn't your sort of conversation topic, though - you brought the subject up, after all! She just listened to your opinion, thought about it and gave her opinion. That's how these conversations work .

It sounds like you might have written her off as shy and unsociable, because you and your friends were all discussing how sortedand together you all are now, when she was standing there listening to you all thinking "God, they haven't a clue", but being too polite to say.

Then you thought you'd challenge her, I can only imagine so as to make her feel shit and you feel superior?, and then she shifted the conversation up a few notches to a different intellectual plane and you were out of your depth and stopped the conversation. And now you're making digs about it.

I also don't appreciate your comment about "normal women" and the fact that you have DC, friends and a job meaning you have more important things to think about. What she's saying I think is pretty fundamental to all of us.

I am gob-smacked that when she came out with a statement that blew your mind your reaction was Well there wasn't very much left to be said after that!

So anyone have any idea of what she was on about?
You would know if you had asked her right there and then. "I've never heard that view point before. What do you mean?" Did no-one say that?!

Normal women. ha ha ha. I don't do yoga. I have no artisitic abilities. I have 3 DC and a difficult brainy mathsy job and I'm a school governor and I have hobbies. I can still think and read.

You know is meant to be a joke, right?

Maybe start with online videos since books aren't your thing and you don't know where to start. You could try Philosophy TED talks or Psychology TED talks?

Hmm this thread depressingly makes me realise why I rarely meet anyone who seems to be from vaguely the same planet. (Obvs they are all on MN! Discussing parking! )

It takes energy to not think, IME. Energy to actively block stuff out. (I realise some/most people are not like this). Life is utterly dull and just crappy if you stop seeing the richness in everything and the fascinating universe. It doesn't necessarily stop you being practical in day to day life - I was always on top of cleaning, spending money wisely etc that others took a while to grasp as we grew up! Although I must admit it makes some things seem really, really hard, because they just seem so divorced from what the planet and people need (see:capitalism, and trying to give a shit about a job that is ultimately pointless/not helpful to the world).

Sometimes in quiet moments I just feel utterly exhilarated and sort of at one with the universe, it's just so overwhelmingly complex and fascinating and seems such a shame to have only one life to discover as much as possible about it all. (In contrast, the everyday little human battles have sometimes made me want to check out of life early...)

That sounds crap and and pretentious, it's very hard to put into words what I mean.

I just struggle to see where a normal woman would get the energy to think like this never mind the balls to say it?

Really?
Do you really think you and your friends are the normal ones?

I like this thread - lots of people talking about how they think about people and the world. Some interesting-sounding book recommendations. One person who maybe feels a bit worried that it is over her head, but is now learning that you don't have to be a genius to think about interesting things.

just struggle to see where a normal woman would get the energy to think like this never mind the balls to say it?

Jesus. Now that really is a depressing view. If your view of 'normal' means women (or men as well?) only being able to think about mundane crap and not dare to mention it if they think about anything else, then I am sincerely glad not to be normal. Why on earth would you need 'balls' to make a thoughtful remark about life? We may have basic animal needs and wants, but we have pretty amazing brains and the capacity for imaginative and rational thought. Some of us actually like to use them from time to time.

Coming back to finish reading later

I don't know why you think she's odd or what she said. I'm not airy fairy. I'm a farmer FFS. I think about these things all the time. When my brother was killed in an accident, my whole certainty about life was turned upside down. I don't think we have a core self since we are not machines.

OP, there are also some interesting thoughtful podcasts about, not necessarily about philosophy but certainly with elements of psychology and neuroscience. These are a couple I listen to in English:

Radiolab
Freakonomics
TED Radio Hour
I also like The Moth.

And here's a list from TED:
blog.ted.com/45-great-podcast-picks-from-the-ted-staff/

My absolute favourite thing about this thread is how in a conversation "about how at our age you finally start to grow up, that you get a much stronger, more solid idea of who you are and your values and that you just really know yourself and have a handle on the world" the OP has been thrown into a state of confusion by someone proffering an alternate viewpoint.

Not such a strong 'handle on the world' after all, maybe?

I really don't mean to be dismissive I'm not I really am interested and I do think she was fascinating I just struggle to see where a normal woman would get the energy to think like this never mind the balls to say it?

That is a really interesting statement, maybe a lot of women/people do think like this- but we have been socially conditioned not to say it- the unpalatable truth maybe?

OP it seems that you had made a judgement about this friend and she really blind sided you, & made you question yourself.

Eolian has also written much more succinctly what I would like to say.

If I ever feel I've got a handle on the world I usually take that as a sign that I'm getting complacent and should get out more .