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Original poster

Please can someone settle a 'Catholic' argument/query for me?

147 replies

yorkshirelass79 · 13/01/2007 21:35

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
PeachyClair · 13/01/2007 22:21

Have to go (Dh come in with a kebab LOL) can I just lecave you with this. Its not from an agreed catholic text, its the Gospel of Thomas which I personally believe (and evidence does suggest is genuine- even the catholics admitted they didn't include all books in the bible). I love it though, it says so much:

3 Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

kittylette · 13/01/2007 22:22

we are getting married in november

i really just want to apologise again for my out burst, i feel so daft - but its a big thing to face up to, that someone somewhere wouls say that my lifestyle is wrong, and the god that i love so much would dissaprove of me, when all i do is love my DF and bring up my kids up, in gods name

Lio · 13/01/2007 22:22

Night night

lulumama · 13/01/2007 22:26

kitty...this won;t be the last time someone has a differing view point about your life and religious leanings..so just don;t worry or take to heart what others say....you know you are doing the right thing for your family..that is all that matters.

Original poster
yorkshirelass79 · 13/01/2007 22:27

Message withdrawn

OP posts:
kittylette · 13/01/2007 22:27

peachy i took alot of comfort in that reading, thankyou

mrsdarcy · 13/01/2007 22:27

Kittylette, one of the foundations of Catholicism is that we have free will. Yes, God made you the way you are but does not make you engage in homosexual acts. You chose to do so.

I can see how upsetting it must be for you to have a strong faith and love for the Church but not be able to reconcile that with your sexuality. I'm sure there are other people in your church who face comparable conflicts - people who are divorced or married to divorcees, for example.

FWIW, and it doesn't really hold water logically, I think that if someone doesn't feel that their vocation is to lead a celibate life, it is asking for a huge sacrifice to expect them to do so. Most of us aren't up to making that sacrifice - I'm sure I wouldn't be.

KezzaG · 13/01/2007 22:29

Kitty, as you can probably tell I dont have a lot of time for religion and dont understand how people make their peace with their God and their lifestyle, but I think it is much better to live a good honest lifestyle and make yourself and others happy. If that works for you, and you have faith in your God than surely that is all that matters.

RustyBear · 13/01/2007 22:35

The problem is though kitty, that you may think catholics should adapt to the times by allowing contraception & a relationship without marriage - but what if another catholic thought they should adapt by accepting, say, using drugs, or paedophilia?
Actually that's probably a bit too extreme,as both those are illegal, so substitute some other belief of the faith which you accept but others may not.
(I'm not sure i should post this - it'll probably bring DC out of the woodwork)

kittylette · 13/01/2007 22:39

exactly that stuff is illegal and deemed wrong by the law and the general public,

so it would be better for me to not use contraception and carry on having child after child that i will not be able to afford or look after properly, as i will end up with 13 of them by the time im 45?

obviously not, the church dont have all the answers

i dont live exactly to their criteria, but i dont do anything that would HURT or effect anybody else

its difficult, and i dont have the answers, how could i?

lulumama · 13/01/2007 22:41

surely that is where the abstinence comes in to it, instead of contraception ?

DumbledoresGirl · 13/01/2007 22:42

Ahem, may I point out that there is a third alternative? It is not just use contraception or have baby after baby.

Yeah I knw you would not like it. It is just that it maddens me that non-Catholics seem to think that all good Catholics must have a string of children. There is a perfectly acceptable alternative.

DumbledoresGirl · 13/01/2007 22:42

OOh great minds think alike lulumama!

southeastastra · 13/01/2007 22:43

i am lost to why people look to the church for answers, live your life with good intent and be nice seems to work

kittylette · 13/01/2007 22:43

sorry, which is?

lulumama · 13/01/2007 22:43

but homosexuality used to be illegal...and now it isn;t ,and yet still deemed wrong by the church.....

kittylette · 13/01/2007 22:45

because when your in love abstinence isnt an option, lol

no seriously, if i hadnt found the man i wanted to marry i wouldnt have sex with him

ive only ever had sex with my partner as he the one god made for me,

lulumama · 13/01/2007 22:45

so the church is not catching up with the modern world.....

kittylette · 13/01/2007 22:46

i dont think it is, no

DumbledoresGirl · 13/01/2007 22:47

But you can time your moments of intimacay kittylette so that you don't have baby after baby. I know you wouldn't want to do that - neither would I - but I am just pointing out that the Catholic church would say to you that you do not have to have lots of children or use contraception, simply avoid sex at times when conception is likely to take place.

lulumama · 13/01/2007 22:47

so, how does that fit in with being bisexual kitty, ? honestly interested in the answer not being picky

so homosexuals are in love, but not allowed to express their love physically by the church , but it is ok for you to express heterosexual love with your DF because you are in love , and also to use contraception, because you are in love? not picking at you..just trying to reason through it in my head !

KezzaG · 13/01/2007 22:49

Suffering, self conrol and resisting temptation are all quite central to any religion. None of them say, just do what you want, live within the laws of your given couintry, turn up at church once a week and you'll be ok.

As the world in general becomes more exposed to different behavious, sexual pracices, levels of violence, different lifestyls etc, more and more of these church regulations will get challenged and adapted to suit individuals. Where does it end?

you cannot reconcile it, you just have to live your life how you see fit - either no religion, religion to fit your lifestyle, or complete orthodox behaviour and accept you dont get to do things you might otherside be inclined to do.

expatinscotland · 13/01/2007 22:49

Right, but Kitty, the Church says you should have married him. In the Church. W/the mandatory wait period and pre-Cana classes.

Before you had children with him.

Sorry, but those are the rules.

So how is it different for you v. someone who is homosexual or bi-sexual?

expatinscotland · 13/01/2007 22:50

When you're in love, abstinence isn't an option?

Huh?

kittylette · 13/01/2007 22:50

but its not very reliable is it?

its such a shame that people who follow the church and are devoted are made to feel bad by using contraception and doing whats best for their familys by having the number of kids they want,

im sure theres alot of beings within the church who would like to update, and reconcider issues, such as celibacy in priests (another one to discuss)

but im getting a headache from the bright screen, lol so im off to bed now

night night